• Melamodo

    Do you guys think that Avacyn Lady Angel will battle Sorin in the end?

    • jared

      of course

      • Blackfire2

        Sorin, the pure black mana versus an angelic being of pure divine might….. oh i cannot wait!

        • Jared

          hmm seems I was wrong. sorin CREATED avacyn. . . . . interesting .. . . . . …

        • lolwhaat

          Sorin made Avacyn.

    • Laserface

      REVERSE CROVAX TIME!

    • Will Druetta

      REVERSE CROVAX TIME!

  • jared

    I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THIS!!!!

  • Blackfire2

    My only concern…. what’ll happen to the werewolves D:

    • BurningJeff

      There are only 2 things I can think of:
      1. Happy cheesy ending: they are tuned into humans, like cured of the curse.
      2. Interesting ending: They remain werewolves!

      I don’t think a plane wide genocide will happen that would wipe out all of them.

      • Treed98

        It will go back to being the way it was before, all of the baddies around but restricted. Avacyn isnt a planes wide god, just a very strong angel.

        • Blackfire2

          most likely yeah, i’m so glad that they finally have a multi-colored werewolf

          • Dick Hertz

            BUT it is not legendary. Each other tribal has a mythic legend. Grimgrin, Olivia, Mikaeus, Geist. No legendary werewolf, even though in flavor text Tolovar is mentioned a bajillion times. Where are references to Grimgrin? Geist of Saint Treft? I wouldn’t be surprised if Tolovar appears in AVR, but I’m not going to hold my breath. Wizards is notorious for disappointing their community. (Who wants Planeswalker Points? They’re SOOOO much better than Rewards, right? Who needs textless spells? Nobody liked those.)

        • Bugleboy

          Pretty much yes, Avacyn was created by Sorin Markhov to help the humans survive the darkness of Innistrad, but not to cleanse it.

          • Crystyn

            Avacyn was created to keep the vampires alive. Without her the vampire would lose their livestock!

          • Trolololol

            if memory serves, Avacyn was actually created to help maintain a balance in Innistrad while Sorin was walking other planes.

          • Empyrean

            If this were Sorin’s goal, he would have convinced the humans of Innistrad to seek out the vampires’ protection from the plane’s zombies, werewolves, and geists in exchange for having to live as their livestock. It’s a far more practical plan.

        • blackros3

          this reminds me of the urza and karn thing. karn was created by urza and gained a spark to planeswalk and maybe that happened with avacyn. avacyn must have gained a spark and planeswalked, only reason they say she vanished. well i think..

          • Saxihim

            You are wrong. Avacyn was imprisoned in Helvault when Griselbrand tossed his spear and impaled her heart; her sealing magic backfired on her, trapping her inside as well. There is an article on wizards’ site about this.

          • Busterswrd_maniac

            umm…. WHERE is that article? i couldn’t find it <.<

          • Carter Harris86

            i originaly thought she was serra planeswalker

      • Aganigoldmane2

        i agree. there will probably be a cheesy ending like almost every other set

        • guest

          What other sets have a happy cheesy ending?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adams-Cofield/37400551 Adams Cofield

            Invasion was pretty happy and cheesy

          • guest

            I guess thats true… i was thinking more lately

          • Jereme

            Invasion was far from happy cheesy, basically all the good guys die, and yeah they win the war but Dominaria is so screwed up that it almost rips itself apart in Time Spiral. In what way is that happy and cheesy?

          • VIZGIX

            Yeah, (agree). not to mention, although they are victorious in stopping the Phyrexian invasion, and although they heavily damage(collapse) Phyrexia, the ultimately fail to stop the evil that is Phyrexia (as the Phyrexians take over Mirrodin in ‘Scars’ block) not to mention that there is no absolute proof (to my knowledge) that Yawgmoth is dead, and even if he is, his horrific creations live on.

          • VIZGIX

            oh shit i just re-read, he did die

          • VIZGIX

            actually in “Scouge” Karona was seeking the multiverse for planeswalkers and yawgmoth responded to her… his is still alive, theoretically (as a disembodied planeswalker

          • baked magic player

            just like nicol bolas was un-embodied and he came back. lol fuck im baked

          • Carter Harris86

            karona was crazy

          • Empyrean

            This was retconned in the Time Spiral cycle.

          • crystyn

            why dont they just let Bolas win! He was, kinda is and should again be the omnipotent self serving asshole sentinent being

          • Carter Harris86

            zendikar, alara, lorywn, ice age(coldsnap), and ravnica to name a few

          • Carter Harris86

            i forgot mirodin and new phirexia

          • Archss31

            Didn’t Zendikar block end with Sorin getting pissed at Nissa and leaving, Nissa realizing she screwed up and leaving to go find help and Gideon fighting off a horde only to realize it was just a bunch of peons in comparison to emrakul, kozilek, and ulamog and planeswalking to find help? How is all the good guys leaving 3 world destroyers on a plane because they couldn’t beat them a happy cheesey ending?

          • BSA

            Also, I fail to see how New Phyrexia had a happy ending.

          • Helllllooooooooooo

            well ya see, venser gives his heart to Karn out of a sense of either heroism or love (feeling the bromosexuality in it), and Karn comes out of his, “i’m gonna have a perma-period and be a douche to the mirran’s” mode, constantly lightningbolting the phyrexian spawn and we assume he’s now doing the right thing for the next 28 days.

          • taj1994

            That is only the START of New Phyrexia…

            You are talking about the end of the book “Quest for Karn,” which takes place during Scars of Mirrodin and Mirrodin Besieged. It is after this that New Phyrexia’s story starts

          • Carter Harris86

            it was just cheesy. Karn said ” your world needs help. Bye

          • Barrett Schneider

            New Phyrexia?
            Where the entirety of the plane is infected except by the few natives hiding in the Great Furnaces?

          • Guest

            well it ended good for the phyrexians atleast XD

          • Busterswrd_maniac

            oh yeah…. zendikar had a BEAUTIFUL happy ending. (watches as the Eldrazi destroy multiple villages and country sides) yup…. b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l………….

    • lolwhaat

      My guess is Human’s will still have the werewolf curse but they are unable to transform. Makes werewolves in the set possible. Makes werewolves possible with no double-faced cards

    • BOSSROSS

      I recall an article by Mark Rosewater about how much he regretted not including allies in Rise of Eldrazi. Taking out werewolves now is really damning them to a similar fate as allies. Hopefully they don’t botch this one up like they did Zendikar, I’m really liking this block.

    • Baneslayer95

      I think the won’t be more werewolves in 3rd set:
      same as allies in zendikar

  • dude

    does anybody else notice that the angel looks a little dark maybe she is cursed in the veil

    • Saxihim

      No, she has most likely absorbed some blackishness from being imprisoned with Grizzlybrand. My guess is she’ll be a white/black legendary with sick smity abilities.

      • Joeajones81

        Sorin created her she is prob b/w

        • Joeajones81

          The people in the pic look like they r rejoicing to me!

          • Joeajones81

            I think maybe just to stir it up because of all the stress of being locked in the Helvault with Griselbrand and others her spark ignites( ignite the dawn) and she comes out, goes nuts and tries to take out every1, including her creater! Whaddya think?!

  • Twinkletoesmcbombsalot

    I CAN WAIT FOR THIS!!!!111

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gene-Michael-Nery/651499383 Gene Michael Nery

    i hope there will be more awesome humans and angels in this set and maybe even a healed Garruk?

    • Jared

      healed garruk would be awesome, and what if avacyn turned out to be a planeswalker!!!!!!!! :UberCool:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Oceansoul01

        does anyone know where i can find and read the magic storylines online

        • Bugleboy

          Like on the Magic website under Daily MTG, Daily Arcana

      • Mtgfanatic

        Unfortunately Avacyn was created by Sorin, so I dont think she’ll be a planeswalker… and i think White has enough of those… XD

        • Jereme

          Exactly, I don’t think planeswalkers could create other planeswalkers even before the mending (Yawgmoth on Phyrexia was as strong as a planeswalker and couldn’t do it) so unless she just happened to be one of those one in a billion with a spark and she ascended while being trapped in the Helvault then that’s very unlikely.

          • QAZAZ

            Karn was created by Urza

          • Gamenut987

            but Urza didn’t give him (or awaken) Karn’s spark…

  • Faust2391

    “Blessed be, Avacyn is back!”
    “May she be rejoiced, we’re saved!”
    “Daddy, why doesn’t she look like the pictures?”
    “O great Avacyn, what has happened to you?! Why doth thou shroud thyself in the colors of Griselbrand?!”
    -village is incerated as Avacyn has joined with the demons under the newfound leadership of Bolas-
    DUH DUH DUUHH

    • Blackfire2

      i applaud you and your brilliance sir! lol

    • Mtgfanatic

      She DOES look pretty goth… but then Sorin would come in and kill her… but it would be cool if he teamed up with Liliana and healed Garruk. Or maybe Liliana was working WITH evil Avacyn…..

      Except we all know Liliana WILL kill Griselbrand

      • Mtgfanatic

        healed Garruk as a card, not Sorin healed him

      • Student of Warfare

        Sorin created Avacyn to balance innistrad, he’s the one who is going to bring her back

        • Empyrean

          Considering Liliana’s the one who learns what happened with the Helvault incident, I seriously doubt it.

      • Bugleboy

        We don’t know that, Griselbrand was able to repel Avacyn, and we have no accurate measure or comparison between her and Lilliana.

        • Jereme

          Yes we do. She’s a Planeswalker, they’re ridiculously weak with the whole neowalker crap, but I’m sure she’s still more than strong enough for Griselbrand. Maybe she’ll run Necropotence or something…

      • Saxihim

        she looks disturbingly similar to the white queen from Alice in Wonderland.

        • Gamenut987

          White Queen was in Narnia…

          • Fabelavalon

            Alice Through The Looking Glass my friend

      • lolwhaat

        Of course she would look pretty goth. In case you haven’t noticed, that’s pretty much the theme of this entire block.

        • Empyrean

          Have you seen the statues and mosaics of her in the art of other cards? Because I guarantee you she does NOT look like the picture at the top.

  • Charlesames

    how will there be werewolves with no double-faced cards!!! :(

    • Griselbrand

      Simple,
      There won’t be any 0_0
      (Unless they’re stuck in werewolf form or something)

    • lolwhaat

      My guess is Human’s will still have the werewolf curse but they are unable to transform. Makes werewolves in the set possible.

  • Arby

    Can’t wait, considering it’s being released around my birthday. Only problem I have is I won’t be able to “improve” my werewolf deck. Although I am expecting good white and blue cards for spirits.

    • NateDawgAU

      You don’t think the Werewolf “lord” Immerwolf is a boon to every werewolf deck!? You’re crazy…

  • BlckRedWhiteChaos

    I think this entire block is just a boost up for Vampires. They just had to throw in some other tribal stuff to balance it out.

    • deftones pony

      you are fucking stupid.

  • Ricardo420luv

    They should black , green, and red creatures that turn white when they flip.

  • Laughbaum1994

    wonder what new burn cards this set will bring

  • KIKI JIKI The Planeswalker

    They Will Die with all the vampires

    • Ajanigoldmane

      Dude, why are you called KIKI JIKI the planeswalker? KIKI is a mirror breaker!!! :o

      • KIKI JIKI The Planeswalker

        he’s from avacyn restored, DUH!!!!

  • Jniu

    heard rumors that avacyn was a blue white planeswalker. it was officially stated that “The archangel Avacyn has left Innistrad.” She left and only planeswalkers can leave planes.

    • Jared

      I hope that she’s just white or white/green either that or a REALLY good white/blue.

      maybe she isn’t a plainswalker, look at the spoiler/trailer on youtube, and then look at the sploiler hellvault. maybe that’s where she went?

      • lolwhaat

        If she’s going to be multicolored, she’d most likely be white/black, since she was made by Sorin, Either that or she’ll be mono-white. If she’s even in the set

        • NateDawgAU

          She *has* to be in the set. The whole block of Innistrad is about her… And the name of the expansion is “Avacyn Restored.” I think it would be ludicrous not to include a card of her!
          We pretty much know the Helvault is going to get broken (Remember Liliana is here to get Giselbrand… she wants him dead.)
          See Mark Rosewater’s article: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/179

          • Anonymous

            “Approve”

          • TkSilver

            The whole block being about her doesn’t mean anything. The entire artifacts cycle was about Urza and the only form of him we get is the Blind Seer.

          • jehenna29

            but Urza was still in the set

        • Fooster1012

          she’s going to be white black, because her job wasnt to make humans dominant, it was to make a balance, and vault of the archangel is white-black

      • Apple

        Would be awesome if it was green/white. REEEEEALLY hope not black/white.

    • Fooster1012

      actually,demons and angels are made out of pure ather, and for some reason can technically leave the plane and come back, but they cant go to other planes

  • Stevenmannix77

    Avacyn is looking pretty evil. My thoughts are that griselbrand overpowered her inside the helvault and she is now somehow working for him. It’d be a shame for such a gothy tragic set would have a good ending. Cant wait for a griselbrand card

    • Griselbrand

      Complete Agreement. After all, Avacyn has been locked inside with the very monsters she imprisoned…. For a while to. That would HAVE to get to your head somehow…

      • Epoch311

        assuming that the helvault works like the containment unit in ghostbusters…

  • Mike

    I’d like to see a Dorian Gray type of card come out in this set. Like a 2/2 or 2/3 that comes into play with an artifact portrait token. It’s indestructible, but when the portrait leaves play, he’s destroyed.

    • Wsebaste

      Phylactery Lich works kind of like that, only you can choose the artifact.

      • Mike

        Yeah, but it’s still no Dorian Gray.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Limoges/100000219967553 Matt Limoges

      Totally agree to this!

  • Beta Test

    What no double face, I call shananagains. I like my Werewolfs, I want them to expand beyond just two blocks.

    • BIZ

      werewolves*

    • taj1994

      *sets, not blocks

  • Stefan

    Hope it comes down to some reanimator cards – with all the undead and the many graveyard creatures it could be possible for me :-)

  • Ajanigoldmane

    Don’t know, man. probably they’ll just disappear

  • wayhay

    SEPHIROTH!

  • vamplord

    lilliana will become white
    garruck will stay black
    avaycn is just going to be legendary

    • Bugleboy

      Yeah, Lilliana will go white when Nicol Bolas stops intentionally trying to come up with schemes to rule the multiverse.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zimmer-Remmiz/100001573602233 Zimmer Remmiz

        That sounds about right…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zimmer-Remmiz/100001573602233 Zimmer Remmiz

    Can’t wait, I just hope this set isn’t too white heavy, and since it’s a big set we need at least 2 planeswalkers…

    • vamplord

      is nissa going to be in it she was in zendokar with sorin that would be pretty cool

      • Fooster1012

        no

  • vamplord

    cool if grisleband becomes a planeswalker

  • killakan

    no double-faced cards!!!!!!!!!!!

  • killakan

    i have a werewolf deck and i hope they don’t cancel werewolves

  • Yami DogSoldier

    Sephiroth will descend, wreak havoc, smirk, then go back to Olympus Coliseum and wait for Sora.

    • Pman 2010

      LoL

    • Poop

      Learn to troll

    • IHateYami DogSoldier

      Yeah. Sephiroth will go back to Olympus Coliseum….how about quoting the game he is from instead of a gay version of him in a game meant for girls and 10 year old boys?

  • Rhyno, Cursed Blood

    Nissa won’t return as Sorin is here due to innistrad being his bachelor pad.

    Werewolves won’t be removed, unless wizards want to look like they are correcting a mistake.

    Werewolves will probably remain as werewolves permanantly or will still be sub-classed as werewolf due to the curse.

    Avacyn could be a planeswalker, but I have no legitimate info to say she definately will be

    • guest

      Avacyn probably wont be a planeswalker, because she is a creation of sorins

      • Guest

        Karn was a creation of Urza, if I remember correctly, yet he became a planeswalker.

  • WFCxShade

    I really hope avacyn is a planeswalker. And a Human buff. I need her for my Blue White XD

    • Judge2008

      humans dont need that because otherwise everyone would play humans……toooooo strong

  • Pitchfork11

    Can we get a new Gideon Jura?

    • Chaos

      i think he’s dead now

      • Edward

        nope, he is looking for a way to stop the eldrazis, but he is pretty alive.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/CS3MZSQMK47XQJLH72OYY6DBUI Dylan Cramer

    I want flashback to stay who cares about werewolves

    • Jfagerstrom

      flashback my but gravediggers king loser

  • oskarminolov

    My guess is that Lilliana will end up opening the Helvault, freeing all the demons and Avacyn. Liliana will kill Griselbrand, and the humans will retake power in Innistrad. And as if this would seem to be a happy ending, it could end up being more like the old days of Innistrad when the Humans were to powerful, and vampires were created by Sorin’s grandfather to end famine, yada yada. So either Avacyn starts turning against humans, becuase she was created by Sorin to maintain balance, not nessicarily help humans.

  • nameless ponderer

    so there is that article on wizards site saying that avacyn and griselbrand are trapped in the helvault along with all the other demons she has imprisoned there. It also says no one knows what goes on in the helvault, they could all be seperated from each other or they could all be hanging out bummed that they are stuck in there but since the third set is avacyn restored and looking at the helvault card i think its safe to assume that the helvault is destroyed and everything in there is let out. now since lilliana wants griselbrand dead and garruck wants lillian dead im gonna go ahead and geuss she manipulates him into destroying the helvault somehow (seeing how he is green which is slightly known for artifact destruction) so she can get to the demon. as for avacyn why cant she come back evil, if shes been hangin in the helvault with all the demons shes imprisoned over the years i cant imagine that being to fun for her. it would make more sense for the end of the block to restore balance but why not an interesting twist

    • Judge2008

      i think ur right like the demons raped her or something or she married grislebrand

  • Jereme

    God I hate Sephiroth fanboys…

  • Nobody

    Great…Another White/Black Angel (Legendary or not, I am sick of angels). The picture is almost dripping with the “SPIRIT” of Orzhov (*cough). I will not miss the werewolves. They are different, but I see little extended functionality (just to slow to bring them to WOW mode). I hope they continue with something more the likes of Delver of Secrets and Cloistered Youth. Ultimately I found this set to be underwhelming. Artistically interesting, amazing, even fascinating. But mechanically a bit… bland. I hate to say it, but I hope Wizards starts revisiting more of the previous worlds. I wouldn’t mind going back to Ravnica for a few sets… Although based on the more recent Planeswalker story lines I am pretty sure that is an immediate inevitability.

  • Carter Harris86

    why no 2 faced?

    • Madhatter00o

      because they’re awful

      • guest579

        aweful my ass, too name a few epic 2 faced cards: Bloodline Keeper// Lord of Lineage, Huntmaster of the Fells//Ravager of the Fells, Elbrus, the Binding Blade//Withengar Unbound (commander and multi-player formats) Ludevic Test Subject//Ludevic’s Abomination.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kazer64 Jesse Herban

    im gonna totally buy a box for this set

  • Hivis

    If you look you will see
    “The demon Griselbrand dared to stand against Avacyn, earning him the loathing of thousands and the admiration of a few.”
    (a hint in Innistrad)

  • CURSE

    but…but…but what about curses!!!!

  • Kellaeth_serittis

    ARGH! I can’t believe there isn’t going to be any Werewolves! Unless they make single sided Werewolves then the Transform mechanic is probably over. And I just finished a Werewolf deck that I was hoping too augment with some Legendary Werewolves! ARGH!!

  • Asphodel …

    People seem to be pretty set on this whole idea of Avacyn having ‘absorbed darkness’ in the Helvault. Well, as has already been mentioned, Vault of the Archangel and Sorin are both white/black, so we might posit that Avacyn herself was white/black from the beginning. Would this itself not explain the ‘gothic look’?

    • Seritho

      I think there is definite reasoning behind the whole melding with darkness while in the Helvault, it would make a great deal of sense. On the other hand I think you are right that since Sorin is Black/White(at least in this edition) that Avacyn would share those traits inherently. Frankly I actually hope they go a different color Combo though it is unlikely given all the things that are most likely being considered.

  • O’tihaon

    WHAT?! No werewolves! thats a load of crap! I mean come on we don’t even have a epic werewolf yet. (Huntmaster is NOT epic!) and whats with the no flashback I mean cheese and rice! I wanna finish my epic decks!

    • Kellaeth_serittis

      Hold it, Huntmaster of the Fells most definitely does = EPIC! He is the first Werewolf who has traits that are exceedingly useful whether he is Human or Werewolf. Lets face it, he almost completely makes one want to not use Immerwolf just so you can bounce him back and forth. Not to mention that since he isn’t Legendary that means multiples of him in play. But other than that, yeah I am definitely disappointed that unless they decide to make Werewolves a single sided card(perhaps they can’t change back or it is the oldest and strongest so there is no need to transform) then Werewolves have gone the way of the Allies of Eldrazi.

      • Empyrean

        All that really proves is that he’s good in red/green decks that AREN’T werewolves.

    • Carter Harris86

      i finished mine

    • Werewolvessuck

      Werewolves suck. Your deck is bad and you should feel bad.

      • Joeajones81

        May I ask why you think werewolves suck so much?

        • Empyrean

          Because they do. I’m sorry to say it, but they really do.

      • Jfagerstrom

        i agree big time

    • Creshna_21

      Huntmaster is Epic.lol.when you learn how to play it and ifs obviously not whit werewolves

  • Shinsan220

    my guess is avacyn becomes a planeswalker

    • Michaelscott_taylor

      Agreed, as it’s a larger set I would think two planeswalkers would also make sense. I’m thinking that if she will be a new planeswalker, so will Griselbrabd. She could be white or W/G while he could be B or B/U.

      • Joeajones81

        I would think Griselbrand would be B/R not U/B though, u think?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kazer64 Jesse Herban

    swords and blightsteel will be gone when this hits ;;

    • Empyrean

      No they won’t. You’ll still have 4 months to play them.

  • Wtfwizards

    One of the reasons I got back into playing Magic was because werewolves were being introduced. Not only were they not that great but now they are not making anymore. Scumbag Wizards.

    • Joeajones81

      Speaking of werewolves, would u guys help me with my werewolf deck plz? Heres the list: 4 Kessig Wolf Run,4 Copperline Gorge, 1 Woodland Cemetery, 1 Blackcleave Cliffs, 7 forest, 5 mountain, 2 swamp, 2 Garruk Relentless, 2 Huntmaster of the Fells, 4 Immerwolf, 4 Mayor of Avabruck, 2 Daybreak Ranger, 4 Wolfbitten Captive, 4 Full Moons Rise, 4 Moonmist, 2 Kruin Outlaw, 4 Reckless Waif, 4 Dismember.
      I would like POSITIVE feed back, plz no assholish comments. Thanx guys!

      • fjserrano1395

        immerwolf not a good combo with huntmaster (not saying its bad, i <3 immerwolf, but u want huntmaster to transform) while more daybreak rangers r needed. daybreak makes werewolfs, with its tap and fight abilities. get older garruk (m12) and run 2 colored and take out black. :)

        • Seritho

          I would agree, Werewolves are only two colors and are difficult to work effectively without spells to balance them out, Moon Mist and Full Moon’s Rise and such. It is definitely recommend taking out the black, leave the Immer wolves but narrow it down to two, maybe three(Huntmaster is the only one who benefits from changing back and forth). More Daybreaks would be good. For fun I would throw in one or two things spell related to assist with your end game, the Werewolves can be a good rush but at the same time can be manipulated late game so throw in something else to deal with things like creature token hordes, giant monsters, indestructible and infect. I mean obviously this is not a standard deck I am speaking of but I play for diversity, not standard tournaments.

          • Dick Hertz

            Black mana isn’t necessary for Dismember, which is why it’s so amazing, allowing you to consolidate your mana base. but I’m not sure spot removal is necessary. Also, Immerwolf and Huntmaster are fine together. OH NO, I PAID 4 MANA AND ONLY GOT 2 LIFE, A 2/2 WOLF (ACTUALLY 3/3) A 4/4 (5/5) TRAMPLE, 2 DAMAGE TO A PLAYER, AND 2 DAMAGE TO A CREATURE. Also, it forces them to choose which one to deal with… if they deal with Huntmaster, Immerwolf is still giving crazy bonuses to all your other wolves. If they deal with Immerwolf, Huntmaster starts flipping again, giving you extra value. As one who is testing a werewolf deck, you want both. Also, more Huntmasters and Daybreak Rangers, fewer Reckless Waifs. Wolfbitten Captive is only -1/-0 in it’s transformed form (it’s only penalty) but offers a potential bluff/mana outlet that won’t require spells played. I run 2x Birds of Paradise… still not sure if they’re worth the space, but a second-turn Ranger or third-turn Huntmaster both seem pretty good. Another idea I’ve been playing with, is splashing black (or just Sword of F&F) for discard, making them unable to cast spells on their turn, freeing you up to play spells on yours. But that seems more like a R/B werewolf deck. Kruin Outlaw is good, but Pyreheart Wolf is almost equally interchangeable. Sure, it’s a lot smaller, but it’s more resistant to removal and gets the same bonuses from Immerwolf and Howlpack Alpha (flipped Mayor) so you really don’t miss out on much. Instigator Gang is also worth checking out, but not reliably so. Kessig Cagebreakers is strong as a sideboard against a removal-heavy deck. Hope this helps. Trust me that you are NEVER upset to draw a Huntmaster of the Fells. You really are going to want 4. AT WORST you get 2 2/2’s and 2 life and force your opponent to deal with them or just get beaten relentlessly.

          • Joeajones81

            Thanks every1! I didn’t expect so much feedback but thank you! I know black mana isn’t nescesary, but I thought maybe just a couple in case I need a dismember and don’t have the 4 life to pay, but I’ve been thinking about cutting out black entirely anyway! Well thank you again every1!

          • Raxess

            You listen to Dick Hertz. I play werewolf myself and I find the immerwolf – huntmaster combo great. However I dont agree with fewer Reckless Waifs (That card + full moon’s rising or Mayer have more than once given my opponent 4 dmg in 2 turn.) nor Pyreheart wolf over Kruin Outlaw.
            May I suggest you get Instigator Gang? Him turning + werewolf with trample = win. And personally Im not to happy about Wolfbitten, but if it works for you ;)
            Im glad to hear you will cut out the black mana, I think it would have done more harm then good. Especially with 4 Kessig Wolf Run. Its an amazing card, but it only gives colerless mana.
            Finally, remember that a good werewolf deck is one there can win without turning (And thats also the fun way to win, just the look on their faces XD)
            (Sorry about the crappy english. Not my first language)

          • Joeajones81

            Really? No Wolfbitten Captive? Why not?

          • Wolf

            i must say the were’s are fantastic if you no how to speed play them they will have you howling with joy (ill bite out the throat of any who disagree) the only flaw that remains is if you dont have a late game plan or a reliabe creature removal (i use prey upon and ambush vipers much to the distaste of many) you want to stay low manna cost for the most part so you have quicker deploy thanother decks. half my deck is less than three deploys. many make the mistake of taking only big were’s and are easy to negate flipping. dont under estimate waifs for a good start but dont rely on them. mayors are a great card to get numbers. then use inst gang to give your wolf a killing bite. speed and balance equals win. never go on the defensive and ur opponent will remain prey.
            ~wolf

          • LycanLord

            I personally sideboard the Daybreaks because they’re great for anti tokens or other annoying small creatures, also if flipped w/ immerwolf, 5/5 fighting everything that boosts their creatures AKA the new captains

            I also run 3 Huntmaster, 4 immerwolf, and 4 Mayor. True immerwolf stops Huntmaster from going back and forth, but it still puts a 2/2, gains 2 life, and shocks them and a creature AND is then a 5/5 if you don’t have a second immerwolf or full moon, and as fjs said, it makes them make a difficult choice

      • Dor-311

        you have all the red spells available… so dismember is not needed man, and increasing savagery is a good card to have in there.

      • Chris89

        Honestly what makes werewolves work is pressure all the cards you use need to cause pressure. Straight up you need four mayors, moonmists, and full moons no exceptions. How many Huntmaster you use is up to you but I would recommend no less than 3. Immerwolf is a must and honestly works great with huntmaster because it forces them to make a hard decision about which to remove its kinda which is the lesser of two evils. Now as for Daybreaks… don’t get me wrong they’re really good… but honestly not worth the main board I play werewolves standard and have very rarely found their ability useful BUT I do sideboard them just in case. Now one of the best werewolf cards that is always underrated till it kills you is Kruin outlaw. Anyone who honestly believes Pyreheart can substitute is delusional I mean its a 3/3 for 3 mana With DOUBLE STRIKE and basically reduces the opponents blockers by half now add a fullmoon’s rise into that and you’re talking 8 dmg. Instigator gang is really good too. This is because like I said it’s pressure one instigator gang and a kruin outlaw flipped is 20 dmg… yeah just those two by themselves. I personally run four wolfbitten captives because second turn if I don’t have a mayor or full moon I can swing for 3. Now I’ve noticed werewolves benefit greatly if you run a little burn with them. I say this because you can pass your turn and flip your wolves then burn one of their creatures on their turn or if you have a huntsmaster and no immerwolf flip him back while burning them its a kick ass combo. I recommend shock and either incinerates or brimstones.Now my advice to you is you have to think differently when constructing and playing werewolves. They are all about pressure you need to make you opponents sweat about every card and what it can do flipped forcing them to pick and choose which to burn. This puts them on the defensive right off the bat and makes it a fight for survival. It destroys their pace and puts them on the run because with werewolves you don’t kill with consistent damage you kill your opponent in one or two big swings. You always leave their jaw dropped. :P

        • winelover213

          i been a way from magic like 6yr now n just got back into it.. i been playing werewolfs n they r fun the thing tht makes thm so good is tht they r aggro.. o love kruin outlaw with instigator gang they win games together double strike n trample.. any ways take out the blk its not needed put in brimstone volley they help close the game i mean kill or they block n something dies burn thm 4 5… or take down a big creature with it… either way burn spells hlp they wolf control the field… mayor n immerwolf together can make wolf tokens a 5/5 a token.. c’mon put 5 out n its game i use ramped growth to try to speed up the mana curve a bit, by turn 3 i have a huntmaster if u play the ramp… i did however notice tht both wolfbitten captive n reckless waif r not needed at 4 each i use 3 each n i still open with great hands… dnt get me wrong captive is awesome a 1 dropper tht can hit 4 3 is pretty great…

        • http://www.facebook.com/Nothingman22780 Nathan Brewster

          I splashed white in my werewolves for curse of exhaustion. Works pretty well.

      • Bigdaddy198735

        Is it a wolf ramp deck?

      • Kaiden_valcliff

        Dismember is overrated, and it’s a poor waste of your health to remove an annoyance. If it was strong enough to remove titans, they might be viable outside control decks, but it doesn’t, and since you only have Huntmaster for possible life gain, I wouldn’t rely on it. Putting in a couple more sets of burn spells would really help you put the game in your rhythm. Try using Brimstone Volley, it’s a great way to plaster people that try to buy time with chump blockers, and having Morbid active makes it just as strong as Dismember, and more versatile, to boot. If it’s not too much trouble, try and stock up on Curse of Stalked Prey, that way you can still swing with big creatures even if they’re not in werewolf form.

      • Mike

        I have 4 Curse of Stalked Prey in my Werewolf deck. It helps keep them beefy when someone casts two spells in a row, which helps keep the pressure on, and when they ditch the last two cards in their hand to change my werewolves back, I throw down a Moonmist, and rock some face..

        I’d also switch out some of those for Dismembers for a 3 drop werewolf like Hanweir Watchkeep or a Villagers of Estwald.

        I HIGHLY recommend losing Wolfbitten Captive, and picking up some Instigator Gangs instead.

        • Jfagerstrom

          curse of slalked pray is for control loser

      • Normalkid98x

        the card you guys are all over looking is young wolf. i find he combos great with Garruk Relentless and hes great first turn and in the late game gets boosted by both immerwolf and Mayor’s flip side meaning at least a 3/3 creature before undying. the most i’ve had him is 5/5 which isnt so young anymore

      • LycanLord

        I’ve been using them since innistrad since I just enjoy how they work, and i’ve been tweaking it since and its gotten pretty nasty, i’d say go straight R/G I understand the dismember for removal, but its really not necessary

        My personal deck list is

        Creatures
        [1 Cost] 4 Reckless Waif, 2 Wolfbitten Captives, 2 Llanowar Elves(need birds of paradise), [2 Cost]2 Village Ironsmith, 4 Mayor of Avabruck, [3 Cost] Immerwolf, Kruin Outlaw [4 Cost] 3 Huntmaster of the Fells, 1 Instigator Gang, 1 Mondronen Shaman
        Spells
        2 Full Moons Run, 4 Moonmist, 2 Nightbirds Clutches, 1 Increasing Savagery
        Plainswalkers
        2 Garruk Relentless
        Land:
        4 Copperline Gorge, 4 Rootbound Crag, 7 Mountains, 6 Forests, 1 Kessig Wolf Run(need another)

        The Waifs, Captives, and Elves Give me a very good chance at having a turn 1 play, if i get the birds, it gives me the potential for a turn 2 Kruin Outlaw, a great creature, 3/3 double strike when flipped, still a 2/2 first striker on the other, and with 10 cards to boost her, she just gets stronger.

        The Mayors and Village Ironsmiths are also good turn 2’s, the mayors boost everything and churn out wolves when flipped, and the ironsmiths go to a 3/1, if you’re playing someone with no green, i sideboard it out and put Gastaf Shephards in their place (3/3 Intimidate when flipped)

        Immerwolf, Mayors, and Full Moons Run to boost everything and the Full Moons Run to regenerate against mass removal, I have 2 in the deck and 2 in sideboard in case i run across someone with heavy removal and board wipes like ratchet bomb

        as far as Daybreak ranger is Concern, i sideboard them and pull them in for players who have a lot of flying or smaller creatures with abilities that need to be killed off, such as for token decks, human decks, delver decks, but its too situational to be mainboarded.

        I’d say run another Huntmaster if you can. Huntmaster is an awesome card even if you have an immerwolf out, if it can’t flip back and forth you still get a 2/2(now 3/3) wolf, shock your opponent and a creature, then have a 5/5 trampler if you don’t have more boost cards out

        • Jfagerstrom

          wolfbitten capt BIG No NO

      • JasonC

        I don’t like the Moon’s Rise or the Waifs, nor the black splash for Dismember. Waifs aren’t strong enough for standard and they just encourage over-extension into wraths, when what you want to do is get a board of 2 creatures and then pass with mana open. A wolf deck therefore needs plenty of instants or other profitable ways to use mana on the other guy’s turn. That means Brimstone Volley, Incinerate, Beast Within, even things like Ambush Viper in some match ups. Max out on the Kruin Outlaws, they are very strong flipped, and if you run light on the red wolfs then Mirran Crusader or anything with a Sword of Feast and Famine just destroys you. Also, do run the Immerwolves – don’t listen to those telling you that you want to flip your Huntmasters back and forth. You don’t. You want them to make 6 power the turn they enter and then 8 power and a shock, and stay that way – with the 1/1 pump from an Immerwolf.

        The other way to get pressure is to add swords for protection vs. the enemy deck color. If you don’t have those, a poor man’s version that also prevents profitable blocks when you can leave mana up is Nim Deathmantle. You only need 2, max. Play it before you decide on how good it is – the key to making a good wolf deck is having turns where you can pass without playing a spell to flip everything, and still get mileage and tempo from your available mana.

      • Zjgflskjhl

        No Huntsmasters. The point of him is to flip it over and over, but werewolf decks try and flip it once and then leave it. if you want to run him, put it in Kessig decks.

    • Bgreschler

      See: Huntsmaster of the Fells, Kessig Wolf Run
      Your point is invalidated.
      and for the trolls who will say these cards aren’t that good, they were in 1st at the most recent pro event
      http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/26985?ModPagespeedFilters=above_the_fold
      case in point. have a nice day everyone

      • guest

        Agreed, the Huntmaster is awesome, but kessig wolf run isn’t a werewolf, and there aren’t really any other really good werewolves. Problem with werewolves is that they are aggro that you have to break tempo for.

        • guest

          Werewolves made a nice short impact but will fall out just like slivers and squirrels for that matter.

          • Busterswrd_maniac

            i want squirrels to come back =(

          • Tonyey

            Yeah, and a Squirrel Planeswalker!

          • INsanity2099

            what would its name be

          • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

            obviously it would be foamy

          • Busterswrd_maniac

            that’d be nuts xD

      • Joeajones81

        Who gives a f***!!! The winners of the last pro tour or whatever don’t EVER play anything but control so what the hell would they know?! Besides just because someone that won a tournament says it isn’t good doesn’t mean it isn’t! In fact I think thats a pretty ignorant way to look at it!

        • Skater516

          umm the pro tours are sepereated by lots of colors recently based on the dka archetypes, zombies.. delver… humans.. and spirits… kessig wolf run is alo not blue white and took three spots in the pro tour. Also the pro tour is the best of the best so if tiger woods uses this golf club to win the pga wouldnt other golfers check out the brand.

          • Joeajones81

            Taking their opinions into account is fine, but when u base evrything u do around it is when I think it becomes a very narrow minded way of thinking!!!

        • Johnnyx92

          Daduq is your problem?

          • Joeajones81

            LOL, sorry was worked up about something else when I wrote that!

        • D4rk_B0N3_13

          Well lets just get angry about it

      • Chaos

        werewolves were awesome but moonmist is a card that makes any werewolf deck

        • Empyrean

          Werewolves are far from awesome. I can beat them almost 100% of the time with VAMPIRES. And I don’t think I have to tell you how uncompetitive vampires are right now.

      • Daarkendark

        so basically anyone who has a different opinion is a troll to you? gimme a break pal. The huntmaster is great for what it does mostly in its human form. Most werewolf cards are not that great. And wolf run decks didnt run a single werewolf before Dark Ascension. Scars introduced way better cards. Such as Mirran crusader. It still holds a pretty dominant place since caw blade decks. Combine it with a sword of War and Peace and you got one of the most explosive combos for type 2.

      • Miangeloshadow

        From what i have heard there will still be werewolves They just no longer transform.Basically they are just one sided cards that no longer transform.

      • Guest

        Kessing Wolf Run isn’t a werewolf and (Huntsmaster of the Fells) 1 of 19 Werewolves doesn’t make werewolves validated.
        Your point is invalidated.

    • not scrub

      Scrubs all scrubs

    • reckless

      even with them not making new werewolves in avacyn restored, Innistrad and Dark Ascention will still be standard for a while, so quit your bitching. even then, werewolves are not that powerful. so many decks trump them. look ill play 2 one mana spells and flip them while boosting my own. to flip them back you gotta play no spells, hope you run heavy instants or cards with flash otherwise they’ll never flip. and moonmist/fog can only go so far.

      • Lycans rule

        hmm, theres a card that almost all werewolves run, whats it called again? oh wait, MOONMIST

        • Empyrean

          reckless JUST said Moonmist only goes so far and, after extensively testing my decks against werewolves, he’s definitely telling the truth.

      • Skater516

        also you cant forget the addition of immerwolf

      • NateDawgAU

        Just an FYI, no one has said “There won’t be any new werewolves.” They said, “There won’t be any double-faced cards.”
        We’re still going to have werewolves, but they’ll be single-sided.

    • Mcarbike

      i just hope that in avacyn restored, the legendary werewolves would finally show up. and that both our hunger of werewolves would come to a rest.

      • PhyrexiaReborn

        No more flip cards mate, maybe if we are lucky werewolves will exist because avacyn will break the curse leaging the cursed stuck in whatever form they are in. I could also see her cure vampirism and pissing Edgar off.

        • Empyrean

          Doubtful. Vampires still need help being competitive.

    • Vlord30000

      No flip cards doesn’t mean no werewolves, just no flip werewolves. Don’t be discouraged bro!

  • Joker34554

    i heard there is a u/r planeswalker in the new set

  • Artifact_Junkie

    They should reprint Wurmcoil before it leaves standard…. just sayin

    • Marionut7891

      You’re an idiot. Just sayin

      • Chaos

        You’re a butthole. Just sayin

    • Lim-Dul_Lives

      With the exclusion of Titans in M13, they do owe us more fatties. Wurmcoil might find it’s way into there, it has the love.

      • Scweese

        Except it would make no sense story wise…

        • Brain_Owner

          Even ignoring the story. Wurmcoil Engine – Metal Wurm. Any plane other than Mirrodin – Not planes of metal. If they return to Mirrodin a third time, then sure, fire us off another Wurmcoil Engine. But barring that, leave it where it is, and come up with a deck idea that will run without it, perhaps?

          • Lim-Dul_Lives

            Ahem… Mirrodin has the best artifacters but it’s not unheard of for another to build one, or you know, a walker took one as their own? Maybe Tezzerat decided ”Oh look a giant mechanical Wurm that I could bend to my whim… Maybe I should take this with me after I’m done with Bolas’ assignment…” It’s easy to put it in a core set and stay with the story, don’t be so linear.

          • Scweese

            with that line of thought they could do pretty much anything and say that some planeswalker made it happen.

          • Chyron

            “Wizard did it.”

          • Anne Noise

            “Wizards did it.”

          • Guest

            You mean like Mirrodin?

          • Chrastion

            only thing is they should only bring in things that would be brought with a planeswalker. REmember Jace is the blue planeswalker for core sets

          • Epicfh

            and ajani was the white until gideon took his place, and liliana unil sorin took her place… whats your point?

          • threecolorless

            Wurmcoil Engine does not strike me as something they would put into a core set.

          • Franconbean

            They printed Solemn Simulacrum in M12, which was originally printed in Mirrodin Block. That said, i find it unlikely that they would treat a mythic in the same way. As long as it isn’t on the “reserved” list i guess.

          • Derekjkole

            Don’t forget Platinum Angel, also from Mirrodin and a mythic, was printed in a core set. Twice.

          • Cob

            What a shocking idea

        • Mike

          Core sets dont follow any story line. They dont have a planar arch to them either…Core sets are primarily to bring new players in.

        • Jpsmooth85

          no biggie if the core set doesnt follow the story…. imo

          • threecolorless

            A core set doesn’t need to follow some intricate story, but it does need to paint a resonant and flavorful fantasy portrait for new players who will come to base all their expectations and experiences in Magic upon it. You could put Beebles into the core set, but that’s not a good guide for new players of what to expect from the rest of Magic, and so I doubt that would ever happen.

      • Aspear

        We’ll have Vorapede… it seems enought for me…

        • Cob

          This too

        • Empyrean

          Vorapede’s green. Screw green.

          • aidan

            i love green you son of a bitch RG FTW

      • Adam

        No Titans, there way to broken.

        • Adam

          They’re*

    • Sawyercook

      thay dont need to becasue with the new block it sill bring in new
      fatty

    • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

      I honestly wouldnt mind a wurmcoil reprint, but I want it to be after Heartless Summoning leaves standard.

      • threecolorless

        It’s so strange to see what players in different local metas prioritize/hope not to see in reprints. “Wurmcoil Engine + Heartless Summoning = I don’t like Magic anymore”

        • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

          Its because, where I come from, youre lucky to NOT see a heartless deck at any FNM. im kind of lucky because I am running green/white with LOTS of heartless hate in the SB

        • Locki666

          lol where im at i have only seen that deck once and it was far from unbeatable, hard in some cases but not to bad, b/w tokens is the deck i see alot and its pretty mean. Also delver ofcourse but thats a duh anywhere i think

    • Anbob658

      don’t you worry your pretty little head, they’ll come up with an even BETTER artifact creature that is as godly as wurmcoil

  • Etheridge Kaley

    Honestly people? You’re all worried because Wizards said there won’t be any transform cards or flashback cards. Just a block ago, before New Phyrexia, WotC said that there would be no cards with Mirran watermarks. How’d that work out?

  • LimDul_Lives

    I hope The next Block has some good decks to replace what we’re losing, like Tempered Steel, Birthing Pod, Wurmcoil, Infect, EVERYTHING PHYREXIAN :'( I love my Phyrexian Mana and kill spells…

  • shoopdawoop

    The new planeswalker for this set is Dack Fayden. He will likely be U/R and make temp horrifically powerful. Look up IDW publishing and read the comic spoiler. What REALLY gets me excited is that he re-enters Innistrad from the plane of…wait for it……… RAVNICA! I soooo want to see a block go back to Ravnica. Yeah, so Dack steels a legendary artifact (equipment) from the Rakdos, then jumps back to Innistrad to hide. Basically he is a planeswalking theif. I am thinking he will have some kind of steel your stuff ability.

    • Empyrean

      Nobody said Dack Fayden is the planeswalker in this set. Just because the background looks like it’s gothic themed doesn’t exactly mean it’s because it’s Innistrad he’s in. Even then, him being part of the Izzet League is also based entirely on speculation.

  • Meh

    Expect to see a blue/green planeswalker :D

  • Byblis

    Feather!!!!!!!!! DAMNIT MAKE FEATHER A PLANESWALKER!!!!!!

  • Pman 2010

    Does anyone know if Avacyn is going to be a planeswalker? Or what planeswalkers are going to be in this booster?

  • Circa_boii

    they should’ve had at least one double faced card, for a legend werewolf.

  • P.J.

    Reprint Shrapnel Blast!! =)

  • Guest

    I really hope Avacyn is B/W, and not just white. Also, I wonder if they’ll put a planeswalker in that set…

  • Brandan Bb

    I think i know what happend to the werewolfs, the buy a box promo SILVERblade paladin and then the pre release moonSILVER spear

  • Lycan_Fever

    I’m really hoping for legendary werewolf to fit in my deck, possibly on that doesn’t transform, maybe Tolovar? Here’s my current deck list, I have another huntmaster, thinking about taking out a Mondronen Shaman for him, but with immerwolf, it makes the flipped Shaman a little more useful i think. Any suggestions?

    I need another wolf run unfortunately, and the sideboard is mainly artifact/enchantment hate, anti-flying, 2 Autumn’s Veil (anti-UB control) and 2 more Full Moons rise for mass removal….aka my anti-ratchet bomb

    Mana: 4 Copperline Gorge, 4 Rootbound Crags, 1 Kessigs Wolf Run, 5 Mountain, 4 Forests, 4 evolving wilds 22 lands total

    Creatures: 4 Reckless Waif, 2 Wolfbitten Captive, 2 Young wolf, 2 Scorned Villager, 4 Mayor of Avaruck, 4 Immerwolf, 4 Kruin Outlaw, 2 Mondronen Shaman, 1 Instigator Gang, 2 Huntmaster of the Fells

    Plainswalkers: 2 Garruk Relentless

    Spells: 4 Moonmist, 2 Full Moons Rise, 2 Nightbirds Clutches

  • Tommboyorange

    I think they should not reprint wurmcoil, titans, ans sphinx so we can see some of these other awesome 5 to 7 cost creatures see some play.

  • 5 color nightmare

    I’m so anxious to see the Avacyn card they print. I’m also anxious to see if they print a Griselbrand to act as her mirror. If they do, both of these will most definitely go into my progenitus deck. And to all the people who think Avacyn will be a planeswalker, it wont happen. The closest thing to an angel planeswalker that we will ever have is Elspeth.

  • Crazyscarecrow

    I see everyone complaining about the lack of werewolves, but I’m more sad about the lack of all the other flip cards. I don’t do much tournament play and to me the other flip cards like ravenous demon, flip garruk, elbrus, etc. were really fun cards to play with.

  • Angel

    They need to make an angel, demon, or warewolf planeswalker

  • Yrocbtf

    Jesus everybody quit complaining about there being no werewolves!!! There will still be werewolves they just do not transform the are full lycan and come into play as such.

  • Infexciousghoul

    What about the Zombies!!!!!!!

  • Chaos

    No, until i see the entire set i won’t believe there won’t be double-faced cards. LIES AND DECEIT!!! LIES AND DECEIT I TELL YOU!!!

  • J Bookwyrm

    I’m thinking they’ll probably do a single sided legendary werewolf by the name of Tovalar because it’s rumored that he’s so vicious that he’s constantly in wolf form

  • Shhhh….spoilers!

    I hope Grisel gives us a Demonic Tutor (jokes!) or a 3 to cast Tutor with 2 or 1 to Cast if u have Fateful Hour

  • yacota

    personally im tired of the innistrad block. it had alot of good cards and its really fun but it screwed pretty much everything else. you either run humans, kessig, or w/b spirits and its game. even infect almost died out with the block. id like to see things return to an older style of play, of course with new twists, but so it still feels like the original game and not a completly different playstyle.

  • Kingsrook88

    I think if they’re gonna go with the storyline in M13 they should bring back Banelsayer. I think that would be better to have then Wurmcoil right now. That thing is getting out of hand since it’s pretty much everywhere. Not to say baneslayer wouldn’t go everywhere either lol

  • Jimmi_21

    What’s this? Angel overload? So I guess Liliana manages to destroy the Helvault and all these angels are now free to destroy the double-sided cards.

  • Adamcofield

    nice artwork.
    i for one welcome our new angelic overlords

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1376935505 Tyler Vert

    Angels… :D finally, another standard All angel deck for me!

  • guest101

    Even if there isnt any new werewolf creature per say, just to comment on all the comments wanting boost to them, it doesnt mean they wont make any other type of support for them, for example that moonsilver spear, just by the name could mean some sort of support for them. also I do agree, I would love for them to reprint wurmcoil, its my favorite creature and would love to see it more in play

  • MagicMan

    THEY NEED T0 BRING SLIVERS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I DO UNDERSTAND IT WOULDNT MAKE SENSE BUT PLEASSSEEE LET THEM BRING SLIVERS BACK!!!!!!!

    • Dlilly8021

      They are going to bring slivers back. They were time shifted and are supposed to be reprinted in a future set.

      • Learn how things work.

        Steamflogger Boss. ‘nuf said.

    • Dlilly8021

      However, some such as Tarm will never be reprinted since Wizards makes mistakes like other humans. (It shouldn’t have been time shifted)

    • Altpsych

      Where I’m from, Slivers just make people look sad.

  • ShinyMasamune

    Looks like we’ve gone from Humans vs Monsters to Angels vs Demons. Seems cool. I like the angel with the scythe.

  • Griselbrand

    I wonder if they’re gonna reprint Baneslayer Angel in this set…

  • that one guy

    i want a new akroma

  • MrAlexChappell

    I have a friend who runs a really douchy angle deck. Im buying a box of this just to rub the fancy angles in his face lol

  • zod

    they should reprint bolas

  • ForABetterMagic

    Wurmcoil should not be reprented, It’s a vastly powercreep card and should died.

  • JeffreyRFe

    Lol mighty Werewolves became slaves of the Angels and guardians of the Peasants!

    • buddyq

      Yeah, I wonder how that’s going to work. Beast Tamer Angel – 4WW – tap Beast Tamer Angel, gain control of target Werewolf for as Long as you control Beast Tamer Angel

    • Empyrean

      You clearly haven’t been reading the flavor text of Dark Ascension’s cards, then.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Fernando-González/1369178076 Fernando González

    What is it With people being in love with cards When there are so many Formats

    • Jfagerstrom

      because standerd is king

  • Kingofsouls

    No transform cards? Fraking LAME.

    Still can’t wait though.

  • Seritho

    Interesting trailer, definitely gives the impression that we are dealing with a “Happy Ending” scenario. Liliana gets her soul back, Innistrad is restored to balance and the werewolves are re-purposed. So I am going to venture a guess that it is in fact going to be a pretty Black and White edition. I did not even see Vampires, virtually no Zombies, certainly not their makers and unless the Werewolf Alphas have a back story in being friendly and cuddly, I think there is little left of the creatures of Innistrad. If anything I think we are looking at a new version of that white chick, Guardian of Thraben or some such.

    • Empyrean

      Liliana gets her soul back? She still has 2 more demon lords to kill before that happens.

  • Tash

    Phyrexia vs. Innistrad!!!

  • Busterswrd_maniac

    just sayin’ here, but that REALLY looks like a Grislebrand art there for that demon =D!

    • Busterswrd_maniac

      woops, shoulda watched the trailer before posting on here lol

  • Jcpenny

    seems like there are 5 angels…. OMG AKROMA’S!! FINALLY REPRINTED! >:)

    • Seritho

      Huh? Where, where? And I definitely do not want a reprint of Akroma, Avacyn is definitely good enough for a major Angel card and frankly I am not looking forward to the huge influx of White. Wish we had more multi colored or at least a few more.

      • anon

        He’s kidding.

      • Empyrean

        Influx? I think you overestimate Akroma a little. Sure she’s awesome, but you have to remember that she costs EIGHT and can’t really change the game much unless she’s being run in control. Quite frankly, I’d rather use that mana for Elesh since at least she can wipe out an entire army at once simply by being dropped.

  • NateDawgAU

    So the trailer looks awesome. Not unexpectedly, we see a lot of Liliana… I wonder if she will be a Planeswalker in the set? Or just have several spells/creatures related to her. A corrupted Thalia would be cool. Maybe with all of the angels, we will see a cycle of them in allied/dual colors, like one angel for each of the tribe sets?.
    I think we’ll see more (hopefully powerful) Fateful Hour mechanic, and more exiling things (which fits with no Flashback and the Helvault). I also hope the make the “Chain Veil” card… was a big part of Liliana’s power and how she corrupted Garruk, but we haven’t seen much of it, other than on the booster boxes of the Innistrad set.

    • Seritho

      I agree, the Chain Veil has definite potential as some sort of Legendary Artifact that would enhance our Planeswalkers. Few cards directly relate to the actual Planeswalker cards so it would be cool.

  • http://naseljenik.myopenid.com/ Naseljenik

    Bad images.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

    deafting this set is gonna be rather lame (im assuming) it seems like there will be a lit of bombs and draft will just be building up to whoever can drop a bomb first. Im just hoping some at least decent green ramp gets printed…I want more than just rampant growth

    • bottomlesschad

      You can tell that there will be a lot of bombs without having seen a single card? I think we might need to wait on that.

      • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

        Well, what I mean is the trailer makes it look like there will be a lot of angels and deamons….I think the lowest cost angel printed so far was like..a 2 drop but you couldnt play it till like turn 4 or something like that. Im just speculating here.

        • bottomlesschad

          Fair enough. I for one am looking forward to seeing if they can give us some awesome midrange angels to go with Emeria Angel (and, less so, Voice Of All). As for drafting, I think that the promise of big baddies is always good for players. That doesn’t mean, however, that those will be the go-to cards in draft. Look at Innistrad so far. With the exception of a few cards here and there, I think most of the cards sought after in draft are 3 cmc or less this block (Geist, tribal lords, lingering souls, or the free-to-play Gavony Township & Kessig Wolf Run). I worry less about the big bombs, and more about the game-changing human lord that I fear is to come!

  • LynnLocal85

    No transform cards? Hopefully get some good support cards for a werewolf deck. If only bad moon was in dark ascendion.

  • warlockstar

    I just hope this set doesn’t unbalance white even more than it already is. I fear my hope will find no grounding,

    • anon

      Actually, having a bunch of big fatties doesn’t unbalance a color. It’s not like any of them will be better than control titans (grave, sun) or elesh. You’ll probably end up with some great cards for casual and, in constructed, some diverse targets for reanimator or finishers for control.

      Of course, all bets are off if they bring back Baneslayer. Which they probably are. That would lay a steaming pile of feces on standard. My bet is on the angel in 82939.

      Art analysis. Obviously, Avacyn and Griselbrand. The third pick is alt/promo art for Avacyn. The fourth, angel, probably has lifegain or exile effects, based on the white ball of light at the end of her staff. The fifth, you already have my guess. Redheads be feisty. And the sixth? I have no idea. Human interaction? Shepherd of the Lost?

      It’s kind of annoying how angels in MTG are always Victoria’s secret models. No creativity. Put a woman in scant clothing, give her wings and a weapon, and you’re good. From alpha onwards.

  • William Ranken

    This block, so far, has been sort of jumbled and not very clear as to its unity. I think (and hope) that Avacyn Restored will bring it all together and the block will work well with its composing sets.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

    Guys i was thinkin earlier, what if we get angel/demon lords? like, a white one could be like an angel that gives all humans and spirits you control +1+1 and lifelink and then a black one could be a demon that gives all your zombies and vampires +1+1 and deathtouch and then a green one could be like another angel or an elemental or something that gives your werewolves and beasts +1+1 and trample…..or something. Just more random speculation

    • Empyrean

      If it’s a pure black demon, I’m in.

  • Slatertke1

    legendary werewolf W/G/R… Werewolves come into play transformed/transform all werewolves that are in play/ werewolves cant transform/ and just for fun all werewolves get +1/+1

    • Seritho

      Please do not have a W/G/R werewolf, stay green and red with maybe some sort of white related ability but not requiring white mana to use. Please! Unless….you make a bunch of white related werewolves, either Multi Color or pure white for some reason. Then I can get on board.

    • Empyrean

      Really? A slightly better Immerwolf? THAT’S the best you can come up with? Werewolves are going to need a LOT more than that to even remotely stand a chance.

      • Seritho

        But you have to agree that the werewolves have their bases covered, Life Gaining, Token gain, direct damage, destroy artifact, mana production, double strike, +1/+1, numerous combat skills and now Immerwolf giving them constant form change. What else is there? Sacrifice a human and search your library for a werewolf card and put it into play transformed? Werewolves you control have hexproof? Gain +1/+1 for each point of damage they receive? Return target werewolf from your graveyard to your hand/play? Put a werewolf from your hand into play?

  • Drow

    With all the angles… i’m woundering…. WoG, might resurface

  • Jfagerstrom

    angel have sucked and always will this no different

    • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

      cause…ya know….baneslayer sucked.

      • Jfagerstrom

        thats only one card

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/E6OLZ4O53NB32UW6IPBDKJH5UE Richard

    im still waiting for my Urza, Serra, Yavimaya, and Yawgmoth planeswalkers magic just feels incomplete without these guys

    • Seritho

      Can’t argue that, I mean they are the key Planeswalkers, although Yavimaya is more a place with sentience than a Planeswalker. But how did we get Ajani, two versions of Elspeth and Gideon and no Serra? Baffling. And while we are on the subject, we get a Mishra legend but no Urza, Legendary or otherwise, just mind boggling. I ended up making my own version of Urza and Serra just for fun, I think they get the general gist of them as Planeswalkers down, with a few liberties taken.

      • Keywii

        I’ve always hated that the only titan engine card (Power armor from Invasion) really did not live up to the reputation of the nine titan engines. So disappointing.

        • Seritho

          Serra may be dead in the prime storyline, but we have all observed there to be multiple realities in the Multiverse. After all, Karona encountered Serra at one point and even if it was just a Serra in Karona’s mind or one that she created, still Serra. I think that Serra, Urza, the Titans, Windgrace, all are totally valid depending on how you spin it, to introduce to the game. And there are so many checks and balances you can use too make it not only interesting but play worthy.

      • Empyrean

        We didn’t get Serra because Serra is dead.

    • Empyrean

      Yawgmoth isn’t exactly a planeswalker, you know.

  • Mist_ninja_916

    Now if only they had an Innistrad book series.

    • http://www.facebook.com/photosears Matthew Sears

      I really enjoyed the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor book series but I don’t understand why they wouldn’t have a book with a series so rich in flavor and lore….Wizard for the fail.

      • Empyrean

        They release books at the end of cycles now. You’d know that if you’d been paying attention for the last 3 years or so.

    • Gunndaddyp

      they pretty much do… comic book publisher IDW just released book 3 of a 6 part series. It’s about planeswalker Dak Faadon.

  • adam

    DEMON PLANESWALKER???? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?

  • taj1994

    It sucks that there isn’t going to be any double-faced cards. They are probably my favourite cards from this block, and I will really miss them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/photosears Matthew Sears

    When are the visual spoilers going to start….ugh…

    • Mike B

      Yes please tell me where are they, it’s only a month away now!

      • taj1994

        They will be revealed about 1-2 weeks before pre-release events

    • Keanusweet

      April 9th

  • Davidmanuel2

    Wonder if we’ll see Akroma again.

  • J Bookwyrm

    My guess, Avacyn is white/black, the next one is white/blue, the 3rd is white/red and the fourth is white/green

  • Brotherpanda

    it looks like there will be a number of angel creatures aside from just avacyn. It would be cool if we could get some cheap 2-3 angels and see Akroma reprinted in m13 for a angel sub humanish architype comptitive enough for standard

    • Empyrean

      Didn’t they stop reprinting legendary creatures in core sets? Because I haven’t seen them since Tenth Edition.

  • Pokemon101

    its ok

  • Jniu

    heard a merfolk planeswalker is going to be introduced

  • Fooster

    avacyn’s going to be white black, because of her maker, vault of the archangel, and she looks kind of goth

  • Keanusweet

    Check out the Magic the Gathering facebook page!! First card revealed… Avacyn: Angel of Hope 5WWW, 8/8, flying, vigilance, Avacyn: Angel of Hope and all other permanents you control are indistructable…

  • The_man_with_large_NIPPLES

    Avacyn, angel of hope 5 3W 8/8 flying vigilance, avacyn and all permanents you control are indestructible… FREAKING BROKEN AS SHIT!

    • Keanusweet

      Not really, there are many cards that can get rid of her. She is really good but not broken.

    • Godocorn

      in my experience, most games don’t make it to turn 8, so unless you are running white green, or white artifacts, good luck getting her out,
      should have made her a 6/6 or 7/7 for 8 with same effects and cost and “for every human you control” reduce her mana cost by 1.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

    So…idk about all of you but avacyn is replacing akroma as my mono-white EDH general

  • Asdasdfadsf

    seems winmore

  • Rob

    This is now officially my favourite set!! the pre-release is going to be eipc!!

  • Supertankdude

    no flashbacks or flip cards? Kind of disappointing… i love werewolves

  • Serransux

    What are your views on this in a worldslayer deck?

    • Mike

      Pretty terrible with vapor snag out there.

      • Theram-rod

        not to mention unsummon from core

    • Poopmeister

      Seems clunky. Would want ways to cheat both Avacyn and the sword consistently and keep them protected.

  • Seritho

    Man, they totally screwed up Avacyn. This card looks like it was taken from one of speculation websites. No surprises, no twists, just straight up overpowered white. And this is most definitely a broken card. There are so many ways, even in white to get her out in a few turns and then give her hexproof and then boom, no more game. This is like having Elspeth but worse because once she gets Hexproof, there is like one card or two that will let you get rid of her. I really wish they had gone at least Black and White, with some interesting abilities to go along with her, not this flat out freaking fortress tactic. All hail the new Akroma……… Unless the rest of the set rocks, not sure if I am going to go for it.

    • Seritho

      Whoops, forgot to mention that due to this one card, we are going to see a huge spike in control decks, hexproofing and possibly mill since permanents are more or less off the table so better go after the deck. But my money is on control.

    • anonWUB

      NO.
      Think about it. Norn is better in Reanimator. And that’s just in standard. Even if you can get this turn 4, you could also just have a titan or a Norn by then, and win the game anyway. This won’t be a control finisher unless control gets a LOT slower than it is. It won’t have any effect on eternal formats (They have IONA. freakin IONA). And Iona didn’t make a big splash in standard either, remember? An she was actually good.

      • Seritho

        I don’t play a whole lot of formal types, Highlander and so on, so in all honesty I can’t say what will happen everywhere. But control, counterspell and so on all seem like the obvious reactions that we will see around this card.

  • Jfagerstrom

    how the heck are going to play avacyn with a white deck

  • Bradley Carter

    Frites just got a new friend to go along with Elesh Norn. Yay!

    Oh and btw, you can use Pod to sac Elesh Norn into Avacyn. Regardless, grab your Primeval Titans it’s time to ramp up some mana. GWR Ramp is back….

    Except we haven’t seen what the Demon Giselbrand card will be…

    • Jfagerstrom

      I pull way better I got that phrexian metamorph and the fire preator in three phrexian packs

  • Xero

    Avacyn + Asceticism. Not much they can do about that.

    • Seritho

      Any mass return spell will undo it. Might be hard in standard, but a few bounce cards or counterspells could do the job. Plus sacrifice still works, just can’t target. In nonstandard formats, pretty easy to counter/sacrifice/poison counters?

  • Nobody

    … One card… It only took one card to make me sad…I wish I could say I saw this coming. But I didn’t. I sincerly hoped for a completely vanilla, yet overpowered, White and black angel. Yep. Its an angel. The most angel-iest angel I have scene in awhile. I have can’t think of another Magic storyline/set that had such a warm and fuzzy happy ending like this one.

    Please… Please… Let Griselbrand be amazing. If we get this super tofu yawn inducing angel, can we at least get a demon of biblical proportions? Something that truly represents all that is black mana? Probably not… Griselbrand will probably have some weak sauce ability like “target play sacrifices all humans”.

    Its moments like this where I can only ask myself; When will I be able to by “The Spoils” in California?

  • Wisdomseyes

    Angel of Hope finally spoiled, and while I can see the power of this card… I am a little disappointed. This card basically reads “Weenies have protection from red, I have protection from black” in standard.

    Blue control usually runs vapor snag, and even more-so towards mana leak. Often, phantasmal image will be a problem, with or without hexproof/shroud.

    White has Oblivion ring and day of judgement. Day of Judgment is more realistic reason to run it, but at turn 8? They probably have used one or 2 by then. White shouldn’t be an issue control wise against this card but white does have the problem with being aggo to the point of this card coming out to late. Humans are supposed to, in this set, be very powerful

    Green has NOTHING, and I can’t say it ever did.

    Blacks best option is tragic slip. What Black deck doesn’t run this though?

    Now before people go off at me because I am saying “It dies to removal”, you should realize at 8 mana THAT IS A VALID ARGUMENT. Tournament winning decks are all low mana for a reason. All of those cards also die to removal, but they are minimizing the impact on their mana as they do so. at 8 mana, with a 3 white color weight… in standard right now? It will be hard to deal with other colors doing things to you, especially in 3 color environments.

    This card is great, but my best guess is its going to be thrown in birthing pod decks where elesh norn is. Then, sacing elesh norn after a field clear and smack down the angel to sustain a strong position in the game from that point on.

    That or it will find a home is UW/BW control where you can sustain the game for long enough where your opponent cant respond well to its coming about, or will have to do everything they can to rid themselves of it.

    Indestructible does make it hard for people to KILL, but it doesn’t make it any harder to control. And it does give everything that. But control, even in standard, seldom cares about indestructible. Common black and red control say destroy, blue bounces into a counter (wana pay 11 mana for that angel they know is coming?) white exiles in every format except this one (oring and dispatch in some builds).

    This is a good card, but she honestly doesn’t live up to her title. Not if she falls in a hole.

  • Jfdsafjk

    Serran’s life gain deck isn’t too shaby bren. Your explosion deck however…

  • Maxevans2000

    avacyn is sweet she is so awesome

  • Jscbgddy

    This is going to be awesome in EDH with Cpt. Sisay!

  • Jfagerstrom

    I’m tying to build control any advice

  • Joeybovis

    they need to add a planeswalker that has 4 abilities like Jace.
    I know that Jace would go down but Worldwake is to expensive.

  • BIg ?ick

    people dont run blue tho

  • Tattoofagner

    by by mirrodin…

  • guest

    im going to get the G/U deck

  • Artz

    mmmm angels (probably multicoloured ones, ie; WR, WU, WG) for red, blue, and green. its clearly visable with the reaper angel (one with the scyth) being an angel of death type figure, and the solitary fiends pack having a lone revanant carrying an avacyn staff… Thinking the domain of good geists etc like saint traft.

    Red one has the two swords – angel of war type figure, whilst the WR intro pack features Zelous conscripts dual weilding and leading into battle as well.. keeping with the theme.

    and the green one im guessing must be the staff one casting something like an angel of the wilds or guardian to bind the werewolves etc as guardians of mankind. As mentioned in the prerelease trailer.

    Avacyn for white a griselbrand for black… yum

    this is going to be a crazy set! cant wait!

  • Xzoah

    Am I the only one who finds it really odd that the most holy of angels on Innistrad wears black leather applies enough eye shadow to look like a raccoon? Yes I know she’s Sorin’s, and she defiantly looks cool… But it’s not an intuitive setup.
    She looks more like a BBW5 angel of judgment than a WWW5 angel of Hope to me…

    • Oskarminolov

      All though I understand your point on this, I do not really agree with it. I seem to recall an article from MTG’s site commenting on how White does not necessarily mean good. White really applies to the world it is being used in. And in Innistrad an angel who looks kinda goth, who doesn’t hold back at punishing those who threaten the humans on the plane is something that is pretty white. Not to mention that her abilities with Vigilance and all the Indestructibility is incredibly white. She would be black if she was involved in anything really part of the black side of Innistrad. If they made her BW then they would have to second guess if it was the right decision making Elsh Norn and any of the similar creatures from New Phyrexia.

      • Seritho

        I can agree with this analysis, White, most definitely does not equal Good. In fact, White is merciless, unyielding, absolute, intolerant and judgmental. So Avacyn wearing black, is almost like Angel of Death or Wrath or whatever. What the characters wear says far less about them and their orientation then what they do. I think Hope in this case means, SUDDENLY UNBEATABLE. And I think we can all agree, this is one serious cheat code at work here for the humans.

        • Adam

          There a few problems I see with this card that make it not suddenly unbeatable. Mana leak is one, Vapor Snag is another, and any kind of negative counter stuff. Also the fact that its an 8 cost hurts the card. Yes, the ability is amazing, but try getting that out quick enough. GW is going to be huge I assume, so ramp will be in, and its going to be expensive. Get ready for some crazy stuff to come out of this set.

          • Shmaman

            forbidden alchemy turn 3 into unburial rights turn 4? I doubt she will be hardcasted a lot

          • Empyrean

            “GW is going to be huge I assume, so ramp will be in, and its going to be expensive. Get ready for some crazy stuff to come out of this set.”

            -Already way ahead of you. I’m experimenting with GW ramp on my little simulator as we speak. So far it’s not too terrible. It can get out Elesh pretty fast. So far the problem comes in the form of not actually drawing the bombs as oppose to not playing them.

          • Joetinabrad

            reanimate it with unburial rites

        • Tryitonce2012

          BLACK SUN’S ZENITH – DISMEMBER – ORING – VAPOR SNAG – DISPATCH – DESPISE… indestructible gtfo :)

          • PWNdmstrchief

            Oring? I say urgent exorcism. Black suns zenith, dismember? i say undying evil. The rest? Im gunna negate that.

    • Adam

      Read the story of Sorin and him making Avacyn, cause it would make more sense.

      • sdafasdf

        I really dont know but i have been in a real MTG mood lately, anyone care to explain Ral Zerek to me?

        • Xzoah

          Yeah I would like to know the Origin of Ral Zerek as well, I think he just looks like a complete badass.

    • dan

      The gothic art style is complemented by her heavy makeup

  • Shabazz_nelson

    Angels aren’t sexual. Or are they…

  • http://www.facebook.com/kazer64 Jesse Herban

    1 cost lava axe

  • Disk3001

    the other angels look far stronger than avacyn :

  • trebane

    They brought back banding!
    My favorite and clumsiest mechanic, but slightly more refined and elegant.

  • You’reDoomed!

    o good bye obliterator you have been replaced by unholy jesus

  • Joeajones81

    So how exactly does ” soulbond ” work? Can u bond with ANY other creature or does it have to b another creature with ” soulbond “?

  • Godocorn

    What does it mean by Flights of Angels? like 3 factions (1 white, 1 White Green and 1 other?)

    • clemencysw

      A flight, in this context, is another word for ‘platoon’ or ‘squadron’. I believe the primary difference between the ‘flights’ of angels is that of vocation, Flight Alabaster being the group that takes care of ferrying souls. As such, we should expect each flight to have different mana requirements, in line with their job.

  • Bspenk

    Thalia a plainswalker?

    • Godocorn

      where was that confirmed?

  • Rhodesjonathan80

    if it helps I’d band her

  • Rhodesjonathan80

    *bang

  • spencer

    It’s a damn shame flashbacks won’t be in this new set cuz Moment’s Peace would have been a great flashback to reprint

  • The Boss

    I want them to show more cards already!

  • Popo

    “There are no black miracles”

    … Well, isn’t that a bit racist

  • http://www.facebook.com/kazer64 Jesse Herban

    so many more cards released tonight on facebook. pay 2 take an extra turn

  • Jamesakaspiderman

    Avacyn is Lady Gaga… duh!

  • Spartanzkil

    they should have a legendary wolfir…its almost a werewolf

  • Guest

    Demons in this set are badass

  • dan

    For non- MOTO people, does this new “Miracle” mechanic mean that you have to rely on you opponent’s honesty when they cast a card for its miracle cost? How do you know that they drew it this turn and didn’t just have it sitting in their hand? Am I missing something or did Wizards just create a way for magic player to cheat?

    • http://www.facebook.com/photosears Matthew Sears

      Honestly, I watch what people take from their deck and put into their hand so when you see them lay it down if you are a watchful person you should easily notice that the card 3 cards deep into their hand is being played this turn or not. I know that is not the best way in the world to do it but I’ll be especially watchful as people play things after this set. I expect several of these to get banned pretty quickly….lava ax for R and extra turn for 1U is stupid overpowered. Forget strategy, the fact that you can ponder into that is ridiculous in standard, or forget the fact that 5 damage for 1 power and an extra turn for 2 mana is good regardless of when you cast it so why not insta cast it for its stupidly low cost. I’ll be running four copies of mastery in my modern/classic mill deck and four copies of Thunderous Wrath in my goblin deck, werewolf deck, hell anything I can splash red with lol. And that G/W angel is definitely going in my human weenie sideboard….the only way to get rid of it is Day of J, Wrath of G, I mean cmon….also amazing since now people can’t force me to sac my little guys, paired with my angelic overseer….oh yea.

  • Black7777eagle

    How does miracle work? I mean shouldn’t the text read as “reveal this card if it is the first you drew this turn etc…” without needing to reveal it as the draw its a very easy card type to cheat with… i must be missing something??

  • Elhaym_03

    I really think too that Avacyn should be Multicolored, because of the Card Vault of the Archangel…Though I still love her…hihihi…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    I don’t understand this Miracle mechanic. How do you prove it was the first card you drew this turn? Are you supposed to reveal it when you draw it? If so, why doesn’t it say that thats what you have to do? That’s pretty important.

    • Tabbies256

      When you draw it you have to cast it right when you draw it or you just regular cast whichever one you prefer to do.

  • Graywolf2400

    Is just me or every new expansion is more and more overpowered than the previous one..?
    Killing wave? Druid’s Repository? … Really? XD

  • Busterswrd_maniac

    please tell me i’m not the only 1 finding this set to be super broken already lmfao

  • TopDeckWonder

    Griselbrand looks like a boss, I want him for my commander deck }:D
    As well as jaces erasure+vensers journal+griselbrand=OH GOD THE MILL

  • Kuriheartsyou

    Ladies and gentlemen, you are looking at Magic’s big F U to control. Also, you guys really need to quit complaining about high mana costs and how easily Avacyn can be gotten rid of. Quicksilver Amulet can get her out by turn 4, and it can’t be Mana Leaked. Not to mention there are a lot of cards Wizards have been making to get rid of Oblivion Ring and to save our creatures. I knew that if I kept my faith in white, it would pay off in the end :D

    • Cob Khuraibet

      It’s funny because I was looking at how to put a LOT of those FU cards into my Esper Control Deck. And RE: Your avacyn comment, Doom blade, Go for the Throat, Mana Leak, O Ring, DoJ, or a well timed set of skinrender/tragic slip can all make her worthless and dead. Indestructible but at EoT, 0 toughness still means dead, right?

      • Theram-rod

        you did read the indestructible part right? DB, GftT, and DoJ all fail hard.

        • Joetinabrad

          doj kills all things so its still dead. besides black sun for 10 is also still possible. tragic slip is most feasible kill spell that works. heres a ridiculous idea how about 4 massacre wurm lol

          • Squirlz333

            DOJ does not work since it is still a destroy effect although killing wave would… also phantasmal image and phyrexian metamorph wreck Avacyn

          • Aubrey Copeland24

            What part of indestructible don’t you understand? Indestructible means the card can’t be destroyed at all. No exceptions.

          • lawldavid

            um, maybe you should read the rules on indestructible.

          • Matt

            Maybe you should. Indestructible – cannot be DESTROYED.

            Doj, kill spells, anything with “DESTROY” in the wording is IGNORED. No exceptions.

          • Aubrey Copeland24

            I know what the rules are. I was just talking about the key word destroy as opposed to the key word indestructible. lol

          • Test

            FYI for undestructible … only way to remove it is to either -x/-x (ex: Tragic Slip or Black Sun Zenith) it or bounce/counter exile (ex: o-ring)

          • Aubrey Copeland24

            I know this information. No need to be smart with me.

          • Van

            Who are these people that don’t know what indestructible and -1/-1counters are??
            And who cares about the stupid angels, just play them and I’ll get rid of them and remove them from the game.
            And what lame deck goes past five turns and does not win??

          • Locki666

            control decks…

          • Neosmith12

            700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.

            700.4a Although the text “[This permanent] is indestructible” is an ability, actually being indestructible is neither an ability nor a characteristic. It’s just something that’s true about a permanent.

            Sorry, but cards that say “destroy” in them do not work. Not even global spells like WoG and DoJ. Been over this too many times in game play. Rules are rules.

          • Wisdomseyes3

            No, please don’t say things that are very obviously wrong. Indestructible does no funtion in any way like hexproof… at all.

          • Empyrean

            Maybe you should take a look back at Darksteel where the Indestructible keyword started appearing and look at the reminder text. It explicitly says destroy effects and lethal damage do not kill it. It doesn’t say anything about the former only being true if the spell is targeting it.

          • Zors

            Of all things, Destroy and Indestructible should be the easy to understand. It shares the same root word, so obviously you can NOT destroy an Indestructible object. Other method exist for ridding an Indestructible permanent but if some doesn’t understand this first simple rule it isn’t worth explaining the rest.

        • Cob Khuraibet

          I did. I just got on a soap box without thinking. Which I’ve been living down in shame on this forum since i did so xD

      • Aubrey Copeland24

        I’ll admit you’re right about O Ring, but most of them you’re wrong about because Avacyn is indestructible.

      • Aubrey Copeland24

        Also 0 toughness means nothing if a creature is indestructible. The only exception is if the monster with 0 toughness is if it had some -1/-1 counters on it that caused the toughness to drop to 0.

        • trtisme

          You’re wrong. If a creature has 0 toughness due to temporary (until end of turn) -1/-1 effects, they are just as dead despite having indestructible. Indestructible only says that they cannot be destroyed as a result of damage or destroy effects. -1/-1 effects that are not counters function in exactly the same way as -1/-1 counters, with the only two exceptions being how long they last and how they interact with other cards that refer to counters.

          Your body can be impervious to damage, but if your life force is gone you’re still dead.

          • Aubrey Copeland24

            That’s pretty much what I was saying. I guess I should have worded my post better -__-

        • Stony

          A nice little common called tragic slip can handle her,Indestructible means Can’t be destroyed I.E Dooms or by damage. Says nothing about Negative -1/1 effects.

        • Ctb0320

          If an indestructable creature get -X/-X until end of turn it’s gone. Tragic Slip doesn’t deal damage it’s toughness goes to zero and ceases to exsist.

      • What?

        Doomblade: destroy non black creature
        Acacyn: indestructible…. i see a gap in logic here

        • Cob Khuraibet

          lol my bad. I totally spaced and just listed off ways to destroy a white creature. That means DoJ wouldn’t stop her either

          • Kuriheartsyou

            I’m not too sure about DoJ. I’ve heard mixed rulings about her. Some people say that DoJ work because you aren’t targeting her directly, like hexproof, but some say she’d still live.

          • Cob Khuraibet

            I’ve heard the same. The official rules:

            “700.4. If a permanent is indestructible, rules and effects can’t destroy it. (See rule 701.6, “Destroy.”) Such permanents are not destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the lethal-damage state-based action (see rule 704.5g). Rules or effects may cause an indestructible permanent to be sacrificed, put into a graveyard, or exiled.”

            Further, it defines indestructible as “An attribute of a permanent that precludes it from being destroyed.”

            The Judge at our FNM ruled that DoJ is a destroy effect and therefore, indestructible is precluded. Those cards stay on the board unless their effect is granted by another card targetting it.

            As an example, if Aegis Angel targets Geist, DoJ destroys them both. Avacyn however, would survive.

          • Zors

            “As an example, if Aegis Angel targets Geist, DoJ destroys them both. Avacyn however, would survive.”

            From my understanding, only the Aegis angle would die from DoJ in this situation. Since both die simultaneously, only Aegis Angel will be destroyed since the other creature (Giest) is indestructible until Aegis Angel has left the battlefield.

          • Nishmea

            she would live, indestructible mechanic reads ” lethal damage and DESTROY effects dont destroy it” DOJ reads “destroy all creatures”

          • guest

            Your right it doesn’t work that way I’ve actually heard people who play avacyn, then doj just to kill their opponents creatures

          • Jhumphrey83

            Indestructible means that any card that says “Destroy” doesn’t affect it.  DoJ would do nothing to Avacyn or other creatures on her side.

      • Joetinabrad

        kill spells dont work but double dismember or double grasp of darkness work. tragic slip is best kill spell against avacyn but ur best bet is exile or counters or board wipers obviously..

        • Empyrean

          The only legal boardwipes that can even touch her are Black Sun’s Zenith and the new Killing Wave.

          • 343 gelty spark

            Black Sun’s Zeneith would be late game and the player might see it coming and counter it;may be. Killing wave would be stoped by Sigarda, host of horens if the other player playes her before hand. Another easy way is to copy her and have the legendary rule destroy her.

          • Sajomir

            Actually, Host of Herons could backfire big-time vs Killing Wave. It means you HAVE to lose life instead of sacrificing creatures. You’d have to lose life or sac creatures, but if you can’t sac creatures….

          • Sajomir

            Nevermind, just realized I had the wording wrong. Host of Herons would protect you just fine.

          • Zors

            Another sweeper that would work fine is the card “Terminus” in this set. How I love a Hallowed Burial for just 1 more mana plus a chance for a miracle.

      • Wisdomseyes3

        Doomblade, go for the throat, and day of Judgement can kill her?

        My good man, i hope you are joking

        • Cob Khuraibet

          I have realized the error of my ways! I was totally spouting off creature destruction with no thought at all.

          3 Skinrenders still works though. As does tragic slip or infect

      • Reddingkyle

        or hey there all legendary right? whats blue costs a blue and 1 colorless and says sucks to be legendary? answer. phantasmal image

        • Jfagerstrom

          you cant phantasmal image a legendary creature because it gains all of the creatures attrebutes and being a legendary creature it would copy that too which would destroy both creatures

          • Bri

            That’s the point….

          • Cob Khuraibet

            It bears repeating.

            That’s the point….

        • Cob Khuraibet

          By the time avacyn is cast, karn could also be on the board. instead of killing her, why not save her for a subgame?

          • Kuriheartsyou

            Hex Parasite on Karn.

      • Kuriheartsyou

        Doom Blade and Go for the Throat don’t work. Can’t Mana Leak an activated artifact ability. Oblivion Ring can be dealt with through Ray of Revelation. I can use Autumn’s Veil against the Skinrender/Tragic Slip, and Day of Judgment is the only card in that list that I can’t deal with.

    • Beto

      Tragic Slip (-13/-13) and Avacyn is done and gone :)

      • Jfagerstrom

        no you cant

        • http://www.facebook.com/TheIllusoryGentleman Jeremy Pelletier

          yes you can, if an indestructible creature’s power becomes 0 or less, it dies. indestructible only stops damage from happening

          • Toourheartsdismay

            Its true, or oblivion ring works too

          • Vali

            Not to mention you could just Unsummon in response.

          • Reize

            you need to kill something first for the morbid trigger…if avacyn is already out, you’re SOL

          • Peter

            You can always sac one of your own creatures (or have one of your own creatures run into Avacyn). Your own creatures dying trigger morbid as well ;)

          • Endlessummers

            All these are useless if you equip Avacyn with hexproof. Unless of course there’s no targeting…

          • Ramp2Retard

            you dont need hexproof u just need a cloudshift

          • Jhumphrey83

            That’s my strategy all the time with my angels.  I never put out an important card like Kaalia, Iona, Platinum, or Akroma without someway of protecting them.  Lightning Greaves/Switchfoot Boots, Aegis Angel, Deathless Angel, etc all hold the enemy at bay while I get angels out.

          • Wisdomseyes3

            Ever heard of a 1/1 spirit blocking an 8/8 Vigilance?

            Because that is a pretty easy way for ANY creature to die (triggering morbid)

            Honestly tragic slip should say non-flying creature, because falling in a hole is a shit way to go for the angel of hope

          • D1N0S4UR10

            Avacyn was flying, didn’t look where she was going, hit a tree and then plummeted a long way into a cliff and died. :(

          • Cob Khuraibet

            The lesson here is Don’t drink and fly.

          • bolobasher

            lmao angel falling in a hole thats a hoot rofl

          • Das_peacemaker

            Considering she was so easy to lock up in the first place, is it a wonder she is so easy to get rid of now?

          • Guest

            dear mod, plz dont remove. Thankyou

            comment removed

          • Mr. Markov

            Nope. In response means that she is still on the stack. You would have to do it after she has resolved, when you get priority, which would likely be when the phase ends or if another spell is cast by the active player.

          • randomstufz

            one word CLOUDSHIFT all ur dumb -/-

          • Tgtechguru

            u can only use cloudshift on ur own stuff

          • Kuriheartsyou

            Ray of Revelation :l Naturalize. O-Ring is too hard to get rid of.

        • Legendarynightfall

          Not to mention the fact that Avacyn herself is NOT indestructible and weak to removal. But that’s true for any creature. Counter the Vexing devil and it become nothing, same thing with turn to frog. Not like removal doesn’t exist for ANYTHING EVER. Just like any creature (or permanent), it’s something to work around.

          @JeremyPelletier: Indestructible doesn’t stop damage. The damage is still dealt to the creature, the creatures just won’t die from lethal damage or any effects that say destroy.

          • Shekinaseeker

            No, Avacyn is most certainly indestructible. And therefore *not* generally weak to removal. That’s really the core of her effectiveness.

          • Tgtechguru

            avacyn is indestructible, look again

          • Jhumphrey83

            “Avacyn, Angel of Hope and all permanents you control are indestructible.”

      • orly

        so is blightsteel colossus, griselbrand, wurmcoil and every other creature that doesn’t have hexproof and 13 or less toughness. What’s your point?

    • Fooster1012

      not to mention she’s impervious to burn.

    • Ensoleille

      Oh you summoned Avacyn, the Angel of hope? Well, I tap 2 islands and cast Turn to frog.

      • Endlessumers

        haha one turn though… that’s all you get

        • Hmm

          Yeah just for fun I’m going to turn to frog Avacyn without anything else in my hand… -________-

      • Togapika

        I’d rather spend one mana and return her to your hand. Either spend another 8 mana and play her with summoning sickness again, or don’t play her. Meanwhile I have a chance to counter her if I want because she’s back in your hand…

        • Rawr

          [i] comment removed [/i]

      • Darkwing1383

        in response I pay one white and cloudshift

      • Kuriheartsyou

        I run GW. Autumn’s Veil on the frog spell. Use Avacyn’s Mask to give her hexproof.

        • Trollollollollol

          nothing matters when im running my platinum angel deck… I CANT LOSE!!!

          • Sajomir

            Speaking of platinum angel…
            Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Sigarda, Host of Herons + Platinum Angel
            Put Darksteel Plate on each one and add some hexproof… Sit there and laugh as your opponent has no choice but to deck themselves. mwahahaahahaahaha

          • Grfert

            Final judgement, dismember the platinum angel, mind control…

          • Jhumphrey83

            Wow that’s beautiful.  Then do Phyrexian Unlife just for kicks.

      • randomstufz

        its not in standard get ur broken cards out of here!

    • Empyrean

      Turn 5, not turn 4. And even then, putting Quicksilver Amulet in a WHITE deck just to play Avacyn is downright stupid.

      • Kevin Cramer

        quicksilver amulet in an ANGEL deck…not a bad call

        • Jhumphrey83

          Opponents: Kill ___________ before his scary angels come.
          You: Quicksilver Amulet.
          Opponents: Uh-oh…
          You: Hahahahahahahahahahaha Avacyn.
          Opponents: ……

    • the boss

      It would be turn 5 because quicksilver amulet cost 4 so then you have to wait till next turn to cast her

    • Richardshort2001

      My favorite response to Avacyn, (though I think she is good, she is far from unstoppable) Act of Treason, attack you with her, then fling her at you.

    • Tgtechguru

      not turn four, you need four mana to activate the amulet so turn five or eight, smart one

      • guest

        you could get avacyn out turn four with this though:
        T1:forest, BoP. T2: Land, somberwald sage. T3: Land, then anything for 7 mana[preferably elesh norn]T4: Land, Avacyn
        this is a little better than just quiksilver amuleting avacyn out turn 5, as you also get mana for other stuff and an elesh norn[or other 7 drops as well.

  • Jfagerstrom

    so many high drops andI was hoping I would be able to play grizzlebrand. looks like elf ramp is back in buisness

  • Signist

    Avacyn or griselbrand as an eight slot in pod?

  • Spawn_of_urza

    Another expansion that gives a big F U to card balance.

  • Signist

    Temporal Mastery & Ponder in standard together? Woo hoo… Also maybe finally a viable curse deck with the release of killing wave.

  • Lightallovertheplace

    Naya Pod will go love this sh*t!-.-

  • Wisdomseyes

    “Also, you guys really need to quit complaining about high mana costs and how easily Avacyn can be gotten rid of. Quicksilver Amulet can get her out by turn 4″

    Quicksilver amulet is not in standard firstly. Then we apply how many actual decks in modern, extended, legacy, ect actually use quicksilver amulet to get cards out. You wont find many and the ones that do don’t get very far.

    She is high mana, so she likely wont make an impact anywhere but standard. And maybe having one of her in a deck will not hurt, but she is not a win condidtion, and her ability isnt enough to impress me or most others.

    Her high mana cost and susceptibility to normal control combine make her very unmythic, alongside a tragic slip being very unfluffy in the way she goes. She should be shroud, not vigilance based on her fluff.

    Grislebrand is the same mana as her, but I will more likely see play. Why? Because if he isn’t countered, he makes an impact on the game. A traumatic one. Even if he is controlled you are able to activate his ability and draw 7 cards. If you think 7 life isn’t worth 7 cards, then you likely aren’t very good at the game.

    ” I knew that if I kept my faith in white, it would pay off in the end :D”

    And that only furthers my point of “you must not be very good at the game”. As if white was having a hard time in ANY format.

    —-

    I am liking this angel and demon tribal theme to this next block. Hmmmm… i wonder if i can work both into a enemy colors aligned tactic… Oh this will be fun.

    <3 Angel of Jubiliation and moonsilver spear

    • Jake

      Quicksilver Amulet is indeed available in standard, it was reprinted in M12

      • CrewbrewStew231

        Some are just stupid and cannot read “indestructible” because the word is hard to see. Oh she can get countered? Oh O’Ring? Oh etc? She and every single one of your creatures is now indestructible and cannot die from damage or destroy effects. Very good if you do not have to hard cast (unless you are bad like Wisdomeyes)

  • Ry4n1981

    I bet there will be a cycle of 8 CMC creatures. Griselbrand, Avacyn, and Craterhoof Behemoth have all been leaked. That would leave U and R. I’m curious what they will have

    • Mustamakkara

      There will be some kind of red dragon, finishing the balefire dragon – moonveil dragon triple. Could be CC8.

  • Cob Khuraibet

    Also, I’d like to point out that this is THE site with the most visual spoilers available. And now that I’ve read the name of the website *not just clicking the google link* I’m not surprised. Shoulda done that before since I’ve been using this one for a while

  • forthelols

    I dunno but WG ramp might seem viable. Yeah the guy who said Quicksilver Amulet will help is quite right. It’s going to run the mana producing minions which the current removal this set provides won’t have an answer. Once u get ur big fatties out you’ll easily sack those minions once ur opponent lets u get a Primeval Titan on the board. You can maybe turn 4 Avacyn and stick a craterhoof behemoth in case ur opponent has any puny flier blocker. Even if u have 2 or 3 creatures that card is still lethal. The Behemoth with Trample/Haste is going to be a pain as they can’t blow him up if ur other fatty is coming at them. Also ur minions can go in in this Overrun on a stick card. Well let’s see if this set actually provides decent mana ramp.

  • Kfl54321

    Ive been playing UB control for a few years now, gotta say i might have to switch :( wizards ya let me down……but i guess ima play esper reanimator lol angels everywhere lol

  • Cameltoe

    OK Demonic Taskmaster + Phantasmal Image’s, Metamorphs, Cackling Counterpart’s… Would this work? Blue Black Control looks great if so.

    • BenjaminTerror

      I believe it would because they would enter the battlefield as copies of the taskmaster.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lucyan-Szilagy-Markov/100003278017886 Lucyan Szilagy Markov

    That Temporal Mastery u.u
    4th(Paradox5th) Win Delver:
    1st Turn: Land, Delver of Secrets
    2nd Turn: Land, Ponder (Any card, Any card, Temporal mastery) Possibly transform Delver
    3rd Turn: Land, Draw the second X card, Geist of Saint Traft, Delver transform, Delver atks as 3/2
    4th Turn; Land, Miracle, Temporal mastery, full attack (Delver 3, Geist 2, Angel 4) Still have 2 mana for mana leak
    4th (5th) Turn: Full attack, 4 mana for full control, enemy mostly tapped and without any chance to defend, full atk…. gg

  • Juckeis

    FUQ! Spirits please! I want Azorius spirits like now! hahah That’d be too legit ;D

  • Aubrey Copeland24

    Here’s a question. Do you think Soulbond effects of two different creatures with Soulbond can benefit each other if they become paired? For example, Silverblade Paladin and Nightshade Peddler becoming paired to become two creatures with double strike AND deathtouch?

    • Mustamakkara

      As long as both creatures are unpaired, you can surely pair two soulbond creatures. Double strike and deathtouch is a nice combo :)

      • Seritho

        Agreed. And if not than it seems like a very limited ability.

        • Dragon1430

          It says for soulbond that it can pair with a creature when the other creature enters the battlefield, does this mean that for example, I had a Silverblade Palidin paired to a hero of bladehold, and then I cast a titan, would i be able to switch the pairing to the titan. Also, if the creature that Silverlade Paladin was paired with died, would he be able to then re-pair with a creature that enters the battlefield.

  • Crazyjumper1234

    going away from the avacyn…. the ART is aaaawsome, i really like the style of inistrad block, demons look demonlike angels look angellike and humans look awsomely knightlike, IMO best set in terms of art

  • Mustamakkara

    One question about Gisela: Does “prevent half that damage rounded up” mean that when I get 1 damage, I get 0 instead? I think this is pretty awesome… thinking of painlands and stuff like that.

    • Seritho

      Nope, round up means that it is in favor of the damage being dealt. If it was rounded down then it would be zero damage for one damage being dealt.

  • Dgorc1

    Right now we are seeing the on of the biggest in effective mytic history, the only reputable and playable rares in this set are Temporal Mastery as well as Angel of Jubulation. Avacyn will not seestandard paly due to mana cost, the other angels are insofar not worth playing (at least with their color combinations). Control is seeing a slap on the wrist but many of these cards are going to be seen in decks such as esper and U/B. Green is effectively useless in inistrad and the spilers are not helping (granted there are only 2 G released). All that I can hope for is a better set than Dark Acention.

    • Seritho

      Descendants’ Path and Sigarda, Host of Herons are both cards I look forward to playing. I am so happy they printed a green and white angel, soo happy. If they third host of angels’ commander is blue and white, or green and blue then I will be doubly happy. Please not a red combo, be blue and white.

  • Nightmarenickc

    I NEED LOTS OF FATTIES………. when the titans and elesh norn rotate out i NEED more cards for my 5-color reanimator deck!!!

  • OSkarminolov

    What happend to Sorin and all the Vampires?

  • Mustamakkara

    Translation of Chemin des Descendants:
    Descendant’s Path
    Enchantment Rare
    At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a creature card that shares a creature type with a creature you control, you can cast this card without paying its mana cost. Otherwise, put it at the bottom of your library.

  • Jonnybravo

    eu quero ver os lobisomens!

  • Andrewshpprd74

    I am glad that all we can talk about is killing the angel of hope for Innistrad

    • Seritho

      That is a good and oddly amusing point there. Here we have two sets devoted to the destruction of the human race and now we are complaining that the Champion is “too” good. Funny stuff, in a morbid kind of way.

  • Hollowfield

    just remember their are still a shit ton of cards in the set. So stop making plans now

  • Hollowfield

    Oh and tragic slip would not work. I could just play Cloudshift

  • Hmm

    I am dissapointed in Griselbrand…

    • Seritho

      I know what you mean. But at the same time I see what they were thinking. Liliana traded her “Soul”(Soul = Life) for knowledge and power, (Knowledge/Power = Cards). So in that way he does make sense for what he is. But on the other hand, how the heck did he give a Avacyn a hard time? I mean he is more of a Genie who performs maintenance on his Masters so they can keep on wishing(Lifelink). None of his abilities would allow him to stand up to Avacyn for even one round. So why the heck did she bother sealing him rather than just smiting him? The demon that comes out of that flip Knife equipment from Dark Ascension is more of a world ender threat and would definitely be able to give Avacyn a challenge even though it would end in a stalemate.

  • Hellhawk4ever

    So, we see all these OP angels coming out. Question is, is there really a way you can build a winning standard deck around them ALL? Mana ramp possibly?

  • controlsucks

    if you hexproof avacyn then shes pretty much actually indestructible, unless you festering goblin or something where the whole board gets -1 counters but you need eight of them.

  • Rhodesjonathan80

    you ppl just don’t get it do you…..cloudshift….. fuck yo tragic slip!!!!!

  • MichaelLamb8

    There will always be counters to cards and counters to those counters. In the end it all balences each other out. There are no fool proof decks, they is why you side board lol

  • djon

    technacily with quick sliver amulet u get her out turn 5 because its 4 mana to play and then next turn tap 4 play her from ur hanmd plus there are cards that say destroy target artifact of enchanment or destroy all artifacts so before u get her out ill destroy quick silver amulet like nautrulize so really there are alot of ways around avacyn but there are alot of ways tlo get around every card so everyone deal with it

  • Kiki Jiki The Plansewalker

    LOL Howlgeist – Dragskol Captian and Immerwolf bit work with him… IM MAKING A NEW DECK :)

  • djon

    what card types other than angles and demos will be popular this set??

  • Pasikjake

    Um vexing devil, try the new greatest one drop ever

  • TheAmazingTopDeckWonder

    I will DEFINETLEY want 4 vexing devil in place of forge devil in gleeful flames!

  • blue2broken

    how is avacyn still important did any1 she that temporal mastery? that card is gonna do such bricking things in delver the game is gonna just be done

  • Asphodel …

    Oh, how I laughed at those advocating a moonfolk planeswalker. Thwarted again.

  • Wadey

    Is it just me or douse any one else the new plane’s walker is a bit…. bland.

  • Edward

    is that akromas seksy sister

  • Jfagerstrom

    the new planswalker is so stupid . vensers journil could do its final bis ability

    • Seritho

      Nope, Venser’s heals and gives no maximum hand size, final ability makes it possible to constantly get back what you use and never have to worry.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    Avacyn is flatly impractical. If you think she is going to see play in any decks that win tournaments local or otherwise you are fooling yourself.

    • Empyrean

      Elesh Norn still sees play, so not completely.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    In other News Vexing Devil is the best card so far by a margin so large it cant even be measured.

    • Legend

      F*** yeah. Them other bitches be cool – I like the big-ass demon – but I’ll take a 4/3 for one over any of them any day.

      • Danimoth

        a base for an upcoming Boros deck…pesky little devil…combined with what is yet to come i wonder…

      • Cob Khuraibet

        Turn 1 reckless waif and turn 1 delver sure seem pretty chumpy now, eh?

    • bolobasher

      abuse so much abuse will come to vexing devil SOOOOOOOO much abuse

      • Danimoth

        obviously broken card unless we see some countermeasures

        • speedkills

          its called mental misstep

          • Guest

            its called “Banned” in different formats

          • Beandipdilly

            V Devil will never be banned in any format ever. Lots of baddies on these forums

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

            Agreed. Its a strong card. Possibly the strongest 1 drop creature ever printed. But its not the sort of card that just auto-wins. Putting it in the graveyard and then extracting it seems to be the way to go, at least until surgical cycles out. There are cards that are indirect counters to vexing devil, such as timely reinforcements. In the new set i also see a 1 drop white creature that gives you 3 life when it comes in. I think people will find ways to work around it, and that means its not banworthy. Its just the snapcaster of AR: amazing card that is playable in all formats.

          • Guest

            Lol This andrew guy is trolling hard. ”
             Possibly the strongest 1 drop creature ever printed.” and ”
            Its just the snapcaster of AR: amazing card that is playable in all formats.” lololololol

          • Juanpaolopenaranda

            WTF! Vexing Devil creates a a whole effing mind game. allowing it or not, it has already made its effect either way…

          • Cob Khuraibet

            cards get banned because someone comes up with a way to make them unstoppably strong – to the point that playing against the card isn’t enjoyable but rather, a moment of disdain. The type of card that gets banned is one that is developed into a very unsportsmanlike engine. The type of stuff that enables turn 0 wins and the type of stuff that makes it impossible to win unless you are playing a mirror gets banned. This card is broken but, there are plenty of ways to stop it. Mana leak comes to mind. Or letting it stick and taking it out with some spot removal before it’s dangerous. Plus, as much as 4 damage is, you don’t lose until you hit zero life so, taking it isn’t necessarily even that bad if you don’t have a way to deal with him.

            This card wont get banned. It’s just broken. It wont ruin the fun of the game for the magic community as a whole. People will just have to deal with it or grow a pair and take it to the face.

    • Snoog

      I don’t think he’s as good as you imagine, he’s essentially a 4 damage lightning bolt that can only target players in any case other than one that the opponent can’t/won’t pay the life. And there are a lot of good cards in this set, Soulbonds and Miracles especially.

      • Snoog

        A friend of mine actually mentioned playing Topor Orb first and then summoning Vexing Devils, then they can’t pay life to brush your 4/3 beatstick off the table.

        • Wisdomseyes

          take away standard (torpor orb will rotate out soon) eater of days is better for that purpose.

          It is almost always a bad idea for your opponent to not pay the life, because the overall damage that card can inflict is to much, killing creatures or hitting you for 4. However, when you are playing against a deck whose goal is to get as much damage out as possible, 4 damage for 1 mana is very scary, and turn one very likely. Then we apply, that’s 4 damage in, allowing for shock to be another 2 damage, storm blood berserker and stromkirk noble coming in with their +1/+1 counters.

          Overall, Vexing devil is just a good card for RDW because its a lose-lose situation for the opponent. 1 mana for a sorcery that deals 4 damage to the opponent is uncommon material that would be used. If you play this card, dont assume you get to keep it until late game, when your opponent can’t afford to take the life… in which case it is now doing more than its initial damage.

        • K21B21

          Treacherous Pit-Dweller seems way better with torpor orb.

      • DakkaTron

        Turn 2 torpor orb as that other guy said, turn 3 curse of stalked prey and vexing devil, turn 4 use assorted burn to clear the path, then swing and swing and progressively you get bigger and bigger the vexing devil, vexing devil seems to be the best card in the set at the moment.

        • speedkills

          if you’re going to use torpor orb do it properly..first turn…memnite sacrificed to infernal plunge to give you 3 red mana use 2 for torpor orb and the 3rd for vexing devil

          • Killer_Superfish

            five card combo for a one drop? are you an idiot? do you think you can pull it off or even if its worth it… tell me your joking

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brad-Davis/648877492 Brad Davis

            “five card combo for a one drop? are you an idiot? do you think you can pull it off or even if its worth it… tell me your joking”
            QFT

      • Andyskryz93

        Not sure if you remember but back when Lightning Bolt was in started RDW was more than happy to drop a first turn Lightning Bolt in almost any game and back then it was one of the strongest decks out there. A 4 damage Lightning Bolt that could also be a 4/3 creature is INCREDIBLY powerful in a red deck. “I don’t think he’s as good as you imagine?” Yeah you’re right. He’s way better than you imagine.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Devey/100003379710229 Matthew Devey

        Lightning bolt is one of the best red cards ever printed…so yeah a 4 damage lightning bolt is pretty good.

        • http://twitter.com/matthewervin Matthew Ervin

          It’s not a 4 damage lightning bolt. Lightning bolt can target creatures and is an instant. This is a sorcery which will never kill off you opponent as in those situations he will just let it drop.

          • K21B21

            Yeah but on turn one or two it’s an automatic 4 damage. Pretty good. Still not the best card in the set although I think it will have the most impact on standard.

          • Shedri00

             look. he’s never an automatic 4 damage. either the opponent decides to take 4, or he hits the field. if he hits the field, they have a turn to kill him before he hits them for 4 damage. not to mention, there is a standard legal counter that counters one drops for free, and in that case, the opponent only loses half the life.

          • Wisdomseyes

            he will always be 4 damage turn 1, lest face it. If your opponent chooses to NOT take, they ARE a bad player at the game, not realizing the position they just put themselves in. 

            And mental misstep isnt used right now to a very heavy extent, if you are one of those people who thinks vexing devil isnt that good, why are you assuming mental misstep will become more prominent?

          • exoduss

            are you dumb?

            they just let it go t1 and swords to plowshares your one drop , your playing burn and you just wasted 1 card and 1 turn. I use 4 of in burn aswell but it ISN’T THAT GOOD. Goblin Guide is ten times better

      • Beandipdilly

        Do you even remember the card Char? 2R 4 damage to something 2 damage to you. It doesn’t seem that good now, but it was worth 10-15$ and played in anything that used red at the time. If anyone thinks that V. Devil isn’t good you must be new to this game.

        • Wisdomseyes

          Well char hits creatures or players and is an instant, But i see the point

        • http://twitter.com/matthewervin Matthew Ervin

          It’s just not as good as you think. It’s a sorcery speed card that does 4 damage to the opposing player. And in late game your opponent can just let the devil out and he will likely be no threat at that time. In other words, you cannot even kill your opponent with this card if he only has four life.

          • thundermole

            ehh… it’s a pretty atomic onedrop

          • Zemanken

            Find a better one drop in the set

          • Dkm003jack

            I’m on your side

          • Dkm003jack

            I’m on your side

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

            The value of a card is not necessarily tied to its ability to kill your opponent. In the early game vexing devil will be a very mana efficient way to reduce your opponents life total. If you want to look at it a different way, compare it to Lava Axe. Lava Axe deals 5 damage to an opponent for 5 mana at sorcery speed. Vexing Devil deals 4 damage to an opponent for a single mana at sorcery speed. It would be an amazing card if it was just that, but under certain circumstances you can alternatively get a mid size creature out of the deal all for a single mana.

            Talking about the late game usefulness of any one drop is a fallacy to begin with. Its red deck wins. If theres a late game, RDW loses. Its supposed to win within 5-6 turns and vexing devil adds a whole ton of power to make that possible. If you still think vexing devil isnt that good, then all I can say is wait until you face someone with a competently built RDW that uses it.

          • Mez83

            I agree. I think some folks focus on whether or not this is a game winner in itself. But in my opinion, it will be one of those cards that at the end of each match your opponent will be debating “should have taken the four damage or let it ride…”. It’s simply a good card for aggro decks. Even a fast black/ red deck with that one mana cost instant (undying evil I think) can make him nastier. I had a red/black aggro block deck before this set and it was nasty with all the black zombies and just red for burn. Now, opponents will face fast zombies, burn, and a devil! Cheers everyone and best of luck in your pre releases.

          • Madou Diallo

            Its a good card nobody is denying that. But he is definitely no Goblin Guide or Lightning bolt, 2 cards that recently rotated if you remember. RDW should be playable again now though. But with Lingering Souls and Timely Reinforcements still in standard im pretty sure it wont be tier 1.

        • Maertens Caleb22

          huh, vexing devil is not a bad card, but i wouldnt say it is nearly as good as you think it is. this card is a 2 of at the most. it is terrible as a turn one drop. as for cards that enable it such as torpor orb, it seems interesting but set aside the fact that it will be rotating, there would be way too much effort into playing a 4/3. i think vexing devil is a mid-late game card. i personally plan to play it as a 2 of in a plainswalker control deck, wich i think will be very strong, going red, white, blue.

      • Maertens Caleb22

        i completely agree with this statement. too much hype

    • Stickrem

      Just give it undying for 1 drop black

    • dalex

      Sigarda, Host of Herons is the best card in this set by far

      • guest

        Descendants’ Path would win more games in a properly structured deck, in my opinion.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Devey/100003379710229 Matthew Devey

          Just have a bunch of eldrazi clone creating creatures and huge eldrazi (if you aren’t playing standard)

          • Maertens Caleb22

            if you are’nt playing standard or casual this card isn’t worth thinking about

          • Wisdomseyes

            I agree and disagree.
             
            Can still make a significant impact in modern as well, being low mana and of actual value. It’s not like call of the kindred where its enchanted creature. No, this is an enchantment and checks all of your creature types.
            Quite a fun and useful card.

            If you are looking for non-creature spells at the time, well that isn’t going to be fun is it? But, just like you don’t put eldrazi in a deck that uses dark Confidant, you don’t put this in a spell heavy deck. It builds around and makes a deck that works.

        • Tgtechguru

          unless its against red deck wins

        • Gk

          Imagine Descentant’s Path and low cost changeling type creature. You’d be able to cast crits for free !

          • Bruce Crain

            imagine if you put it in the premium deck Slivers.

      • Griselbrand

        Not at all.

    • Ethanvandeberg3

      get a blue deck and boom!!!!! cancel he’s out before he can use his affect

      • Souleater1193

        There’s so much wrong with that statement I don’t even know where to begin.

    • http://twitter.com/matthewervin Matthew Ervin

      Not even close! It’s a sorcery that does 4 damage to a player only for one red. And if your opponent is in a position where a creature cannot hurt him he can just let it come out. It’s good, but hardly great.

      • Mrmario7502

        Someone with sense. Thank you.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

        You just dont understand.

        But you will.

    • Zombie Kitty

      Did anyone mention Vexing Devil with Fling….just sayin…

      • Alexsoucheiron

        You just don’t know the rules, you can’t fling in response to a half text triggered ability

        • Zors

          I may be wrong, but couldn’t you respond to the ETB ability on the Vexing Devil and Fling it? Of course, your opponent wouldn’t pay any life and you end up with the same result, 4 damage, but at the cost of an additional card.

          • Guest

             I haven’t played in so long, but if my memory serves correctly then that is indeed a legal move.

          • guest

             Or, they decide to eat the 4, then you fling it. That’s where my heads at.

          • Nope

             Right, this won’t work.

          • guest

            couldn’t you fling the Vexing Devil in response to anything? Like on another turn? Kinda new to magic.

        • Wisdomseyes

          You can not fling in response to the opponent choosing for Vexing Devil to die, but you can fling in response. It is a come into play ability, so as it comes into play its ability is on the stack. While you still have priority, which is your choice to pass, you may fling. Fling is on top of the stack and therefore resolves first, before your opponent even gets the choice to take the damage or not.
           
          Dont comment on other peoples knowledge of the rules if you dont understand how the stack and triggered abilities work yourself.  

          • Dor-311

            lol so true but the deck i have built works way better. Vexing Devil… then Undying Evil if they chose to take the 4 life.. then you have a 5/4 or they take 4 more life….. winning

          • Someguy

            I think this has the same flaw as the one Wisdomseyes points out. You would have to play Undying Evil before your opponent chooses weather to pay life or not (otherwise you pass and there is now no opportunity for you to cast a spell before the ability resolves). So Undying Evil will always resolve first and your opponent will never pay the life as there is nothing to gain and only more to louse. It’s a good sure-fire way to get the Devil into play though. I see what you’re trying to get at and unless i’m very wrong, when your opponent makes the choice to pay the life or not, the Devil’s ability resolves immediately afterward. There is no gap that you could exploit in order to get them to pay and get the Devil to stay in play.

          • That Guy

            or undying evil and if they choose to let it live, fling it.

          • Sgt. Pepperjack

            Or, you could go undying evil, NOT fling it, and shred their early game to H*** with your 4/3 two-drop. (Counting undying evil in there.)

          • kyle

            actually you couldn’t do that either because fling resolves first so there would be no resolved creature (in this case vexing devil to fling) same way cascading a booster with bbe could never boost that same bbe. The issue has nothing to do with response or priority because you can’t stack them up that way and legally use them in cohesion.

          • Bigjohnson2k4

             its not that fling would resolve first… part of its casting cost is to sacrifice a creature… that said the creature dies before fling even hits the stack… hence why lightning bolt wouldn’t work on the creature that was “flinged” then again i have been wrong before… this could be another case lol

          • kyle

            that’s also incorrect because once you pass priority they can still say play lightning bolt which them goes to the top of the stack and may kill the vexing devil before fling takes effect. Unless of course i forgot something  about fling or am seriously misunderstanding how the stack works.

      • pain

         who the hell want to fling for 4 dmg with 2 cards? cost of 3 mana…smart.

        • Fryilluh

           The only good abuse for this guy (aside from his general awesomeness by himself) is to put a torpor orb on the battlefield to guarantee a 1-drop 4/3, or if you are simply DYING to fling him like the above people seem to have some infatuation with, here’s how it would look….   Tap one red, I play vexing devil, before the opponent chooses whether or not I should keep him, I will tap one black and play undying evil, target Vexing devil…  Oh, no response AND you aren’t going to take 4 life to kill it?  Cool, all that resolves, now I tap a red and a colorless to FLING him at you for 4, he hits the graveyard, comes back with a +1/+1…  NOW will you take the 4 to kill him?  Watch your opponent’s face change color as you figure out what you’re going to do round 5…

    • Zors

      I think Cavern of Souls is the Best, F U control!!

      • Wisdomseyes

        caver of souls was made to offset snapcasters power.

        F U control was already made in the forms of “can’t be countered” creatures (and splitsecond spells) and hexproof, alongside that particular Troll that forever laughs at everything but himself. Thrun, the Last Troll. 

        • Colgate

          Anybody recall Aeons Torn?

    • JaKnDaBoX eM

      Did anyone already find away to get rid of vexing devil?…Mental Misstep then surgical extraction….just throwing that out there…pay life…

    • JeremyK

      really? over cavern of souls?

    • kick your faces

       best creature, cavern of souls is not as good but close i put it in my zombie deck and it rapes face F U blue

  • ML95

    for me gisela is the best angel that was spoiled. it’s even better if you have a curse of the bloodletting in your opponent. it does a 4x damage. i think it’s pretty good. and you top it all with flying and 1st strike

    • Seritho

      A little too powerful you ask me. Gisela is going to be enemy number one once she hits the field. In some ways she is even more threatening than Avacyn.

      • Empyrean

        “In some ways”? More like “In every way”.

  • Jacobcmagic

    vexing devil all the way

    • Seritho

      Yeah but it is super expensive so unless random booster pack.

  • killakan

    the new walker sucks

    • Seritho

      Sucks? I beg to differ, this girl just made it really easy to to reuse my best stuff.

  • Nightmarenikc

    any one else Mono Blue? we have vapor snags and a new Planes Walker so control really isnt out. PLUS frost titan might be useful with her

  • Sk8hurleyusa

    THERE IS ALWAYS AN ANSWER FOR SOMETHING. MAGIC IS JUST STRAIGHT UP COOL

  • Penta

    Has anyone noticed how there are no werewolves?

    • Seritho

      No vamps either, maybe last set burned them out.

  • bolobasher

    cloud shift and craterhoof can u say helllllooooo kitty BIG BIG KITTIES

  • bolobasher

    cloudshift and craterhoof play crater add up the +x+x cloudshift and add up +x/+x again BIG BIG BIG TRAMPLERS even if u have 4 creatures out that +8/+8 SWINGGGGGGGGGGG

  • Brennenlamar

    this set is looking awesome so far. i was sick of the flip and flashback cards anyway.

  • Kkkyle

    ponder and miracle are going to become outrageous in standard i think

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Will be harder to set up than you think, and miracle cards are garbage unless you draw them as the first card drawn that turn. 5 damage for 6? bleh. extra turn for 7? Bleh. Put something on the bottom of a library for 5? Bleh. I actually see the Miracle mechanic being unused in constructed because of the difficulty in making the miracle effect trigger. Remember, these cards are dead cards except when you first draw them.

  • Morgan

    Tibalt is the classiest Planeswalker there is. No exceptions

  • whitesmith

    i really hope white will come with some usable stuff…..so far …big expensive creatures with complicated mechanics (which isn’t bad if red wasn’t so goddamn straightforward-cheap,direct damage, go home)–ruins all the fun.

  • Pokojnilac

    beautiful for edh :)

  • Deftones_200

    Vexing Devil under a Mimic Vat….ouch!!!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Too bad those two cards wont be standard legal together :

      • Empyrean

        Too bad there’s still 6 months where they will be.

  • Jake Kileen

    Everyone is talking about how control is being shafted here. Standard already has the necessary dig for control, but this is shaping up to knock UB out of the running. When I saw cards like Killing Wave and Bonfire of the Damned, coupled with the new loot-land, my first thought is to go back to playing Grixis control. It has the most answers, the cheapest sweepers, and the fastest bombs. Olivia, Inferno, Sorin’s Vengeance + Snapcaster, Red Sun’s to exile the Undying dudes… This set is shaping up nicely, and I’m looking forward to controling the board with the new power cards that are coming out.

  • http://www.facebook.com/photosears Matthew Sears

    I’m sorry I think both of these PW sucks…

  • killakan

    the new walkers suck

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    Tibalt will fit well into the new generation of red deck wins. No real reason to play Tamiyo in anything. Shes pretty bad, and her ultimate says “I am an EDH plainswalker”. But Tibalt is the cheapest plainswalker ever printed and he affords card draw to red. he also has a very effective -4 against control. For what you paid you get a LOT out of him. he wont win you the game but he will help red decks set the win up.

    • Mycathatesyou

      tibalt should never be played in a good red deck wins

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

        Please quantify that assertion. And keep in mind that certain red deck wins staples are going to be cycling out of standard soon.

  • asumabob

    Temporal Mastery is pretty broken.

  • kyklops

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO am i the only one that has noticed the lack of skaab and skaabren I NEED THEM BACK >:(

  • Gisela

    w/r angels!!!!

  • J-madge

    Its pretty nice that they came up with other planeswalkers

  • little rapper c

    the herald of war looks cool

  • monkey butt

    my friends friend will give him avacyn angel of hope if he gets 10 people from his school to go to the prerelease of avacyn restored

  • theunknownschlong

    Schlong

  • Lol_awesome_10

    Suck my big hairy wenus

  • Predator8

    Penis

  • Aleclec12

    Tibalt seems REALLY bad

  • Guest

    Tibalt isn’t that bad, you can get it out very early and obviously it’s not meant to be in a deck where you care about having cards in your own hand

  • Fennin_Ro

    I really really like Silverblade Paladin!

  • Sylar

    where are the zombies?

  • Crazyjumper123

    can someone tell me if ghost flicker can save creatures from doomblade etc.? and second, if they can save from DoJ black suns slagstorm etc.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

      yes it can. If the creature is targeted, it removes the creature and therefore the target fizzles

  • Guest

    it’s a “Miracle”

    in other words… this Set is going to bring so much change…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    Not gonna lie. Haven’t yet seen even one miracle card that would be included in any competitive deck, and the reason is because unless you’re casting the card sing the miracle trigger all the cards are prohibitively expensive. Any miracle card in your opening hand is a dead card for 6+ turns. Running cards that are dead for that long isnt worth the very random chance you might be able to get a cool effect for cheap.

    Bottom line is that until they print a miracle card with a reasonable casting cost when not using the miracle trigger, probably none of them will see any play.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Devey/100003379710229 Matthew Devey

      reforge the soul will be amazing in any aggro/burn red deck. I think it will see play.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shane-Steinhauser/100001070355065 Shane Steinhauser

    Well at least all the mythics in this set are either decent or good. I hate OP mythics like Swords, but I also hate pulling garbage mythics from my boxes.

  • Guest

    Vexing Devil not even mythic when it’s clearly the most powerful card revealed so far.

  • KillrateOmega

    After an extremely long discussion involving Avacyn (How fast you can bring her out, how to stop her, and constant repetition of the definition of the Indestructible mechanic), who will be the next target for discussion? Vexing Devil? The fact that werewolves WILL be returning (Possibly as Wolfirs now) as evident by the card shown in the Wolfir Silverheart intro pack?

  • Pasikjake

    Desolate Lighthouse = Frites wonder land

  • Isaiah

    i want that howlgeist for my wolf deck

  • Ragequit

    Vexing Devil + Undying Evil + Noxious Revival

  • Seritho

    Ok, this is my non standard deck idea.

    Land:
    3 Plains
    3 Forests
    3 Islands
    Azorius Chancery
    Flooded Grove
    Evolving Wilds
    3 Seaside Citidals
    Wooded Bastion
    Kor Haven
    Mystic Gate
    Seachrome Coast
    Vesuva
    Simic Growth Chamber
    Razorverge Thicket

    Blue Spells:
    Mystic Tutor
    Temporal Mastery
    Twin Cast
    Redirect
    Rite of Replication

    White Spells:
    Phyrexian Unlife
    Idyllic Tutor
    Martial Coup
    Path to Exile

    Green Spells:
    Regrowth
    Primeval Light
    Defense of the Heart
    Doubling Season

    Multicolor Spells:
    Eladamri’s Call
    Steel of the Godhead(x2 maybe)
    Shield of the Oversoul(x2 maybe)
    Favor of the Overbeing(Maybe)
    Enchanted Evening
    Aura Shards
    Mirari’s Wake

    Blue Creatures:
    Aura Thief

    Green Creatures:
    Melira, Sylvok Outcast

    White Creatures:
    Elesh Norn
    Baneslayer Angel
    Suture Priest(Maybe)

    Gold Creatures:
    Sigard, Flight of Herons
    Bruna, Light of Alabester
    Wall of Deniel(x2)
    Augury Adept
    Geist of Saint Traft
    Wilt-Leaf Liege
    Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
    Loxodon Hierarch
    Rafiq of the Many
    Murkfiend Liege
    Drogskol Reaver

    Planeswalkers:
    Tomoyo the Moon Sage
    Venser, the Sojourner

    The goal here is for a 38 card to 22 land deck. It is built to deal with a variety of situations but mostly to just have fun. I like the color combo along with the option to destroy or control everything, though I prefer those only to a, “Man this game is taking forever.” scenario. The Doubling Season is for the Planeswalkers, the Martial Coup, Geist of Saint Traft and the Rite of Replication. The Unlife is for Melira. I side board a Wheel of Sun and Moon for fighting Mill decks. So I am just looking for feedback, this is not designed for serious hardcore fast competition so don’t act as though I said it was. Any ideas, thoughts and so on are welcome!

  • Jacobcmagic

    Sigarda, Host of herons is deffenitly my new comander

  • Nishmea

    anyone else feel like Bruna (U/W angel) is only for Angelic Destiny?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Since it gets it from your graveyard its for any cool aura.

      • Empyrean

        Too bad Angelic Destiny IS the only cool aura in standard.

        • http://www.facebook.com/GcruzG Cruz Gallagher

          For now,

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

          As a matter of fact there are actually some cool auras in standard, you just dont see them played because when the creature dies they dont come back. Things like spirit mantle, divine favor, trollhide, call to the kindred and more.

  • Nishmea

    anyone else feel like Bruna (U/W angel) is only for Angelic Destiny?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    Looks like Descent into Madness is the Seance of AR.

  • Tgtechguru

    Everybody saying that avacyn, angel of hope is dumb because of the current metagame

  • Tgtechguru

    i mean everybody saying avacyn is good is dumb because of the current metagame.

    • Maxxx

      current metagame will change… believe…=)

      • Empyrean

        If by change you mean “When Scars rotates”, then yes, it will change.

        • http://www.facebook.com/GcruzG Cruz Gallagher

          NO MORE STANDARD CAWBLADE :D!!! i cant wait

  • Maxxx

    LOL, appetite for brains… that´s the one!

  • Darkclown13

    i can see green and white humans getting such a freakin boost!!!! It sucks that the Wolfir’s arent still werewolves so Full Moons Rise would be pointless howevver, Howlpack Alpha and Immerwolf is lookin quite good! So far anyways…

  • Seritho

    Wolfir Silverheart…..yuck. They said they were still werewolves. That is not a Werewolf, that is a Wolf Warrior. Now a whole bunch of things are going to lose their effect entirely which sucks because there are only two editions with them in the first place.

  • CORESySTEMS

    With arcane melee up, you can ponder a temporal mastery and essentially get an extra turn without paying one single mana. With one drops like Vexing Devil, Delver, and Wingcrafter, RU will be the dominating colours in the metagame: RU delver burn, RU bloodthirst, etc.

    • Tainted Soul

      Arcane melee only reduces the mana cost by 2 colorless mana. You will still have to pay the colored mana like the blue in ponder and temporal mastery.

      • Empyrean

        Not to mention Arcane Melee costs 5 to play.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Arcane melee is prohibitively expensive for the effect. It also has the curious and bizarre effect of reducing the cost of your opponent’s spells as well. Pondering a Temporal Mastery is sheer luck. The chances of you being able to pull it off are not that great. Not only that, but even if it happens your extra turn might not be as effective as you like. The best part about cards that give you an extra turn is that you can control when it happens. Waiting for it to be your natural card draw and only being able to control your deck 3 cards deep means you basically have no control over it. Finally, unless you are able to trigger the miracle effect it is a dead card. Seven mana? Get real. The game will be long over before you can hard cast it. In your opening hand it is a dead card. Almost all of the miracle cards have this tremendous drawback and are thus essentially worthless in Standard format.

  • Werewolf King

    How will the wolf warriors work as werewolves? i mean what about full moons rise? how will that work?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Since they are wolves and warriors but not werewolves, full moon’s rise will have no effect on them.

      • Seritho

        Me so sad about this….

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

          Yeah i gotta say im surprised they so thoroughly dumped the werewolves aftrer only 2 sets. pretty disappointing.

  • http://twitter.com/matthewervin Matthew Ervin

    Temporal Mastery is obviously the best card…just to set the record straight for the kids out there that think so highly of creatures.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Go ahead and sit there waiting for TM to be your next draw. Ill be dropping 4/3’s for one in the meantime. Im sure a totally random extra turn will save you. You know, assuming they dont all end up in your opening hand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/GcruzG Cruz Gallagher

    when the pre-release comes along, im going to poop all over myself

  • Childofalessergod

    uh, did they remove Vexing Devil from the spoilers?

  • Seritho

    Well it looks like it is official. With Angel of Glory’s Rise coupled with the lack of anything related to Zombies or Vampires thus far, it looks like those two creature types are done and gone. Which I guess makes sense, with all the sunshine and rainbows, where are you going to find a zombie or a vampire? In the shade cast by a demon/devil’s shadow? I doubt it, their getting their butts kicked. This set is crazy angel focused!

  • meowmix

    Anyone looking forward to reconstructing a new red white deck because some of the cards in this set need to go in.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    That druid has “kill me” written all over it. If your opponent cant do anything about it then you can probably win without Avacyn. But even if you do get her out, she can still be dealt with easily.

    • Modestphil55

      Thats very true Andrew but there’s still more ways to deal with titans then there are to deal with Avacyn.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

        I understand that, but on the other hand any titan costs less, has a softer color requirement, and has a guaranteed effect when it comes into play. You get 2 lands or 2 creatures or deal 3 damage or return a permanent or tap down a permanent. Only a counter can stop that. In a situation where your opponent has appropriate removal in his hand, Avacyn gives you a net gain of nothing. She comes into play, makes your creatures indestructible, dies to instant removal, and all your creatures lose indestructible. At least a primeval titan that dies like that got you a couple lands.

        • Seritho

          All good points Andrew, I frankly have to agree that Avacyn is kind of unsuited for all the glamor she got. This was supposedly an Angel of balance, and all we get is a “IN YOUR FACE!” angel.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shane-Steinhauser/100001070355065 Shane Steinhauser

    *sigh* stop pumping white. They already have Mirran Crusader. Now black has to deal with their anti-zombie wipe card???

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      White wont have Mirran Crusader for much longer.

      • Seritho

        I know what he means though, that freakin angel is going to totally make Zombie decks obsolete in an instant.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

          Well, zombies were never meant to be a deck per se. You have decks that use the best zombies, such as geralfs messenger, gravecrawler, and diregraf ghoul, but those are usually decks that arent really themed around zombies. They just use them for their abilities and it doesn’t matter what they are. Unfortunately you’ll usually find that creature type is often meaningless in the top constructed decks. If you want to be competitive and youre focusing a lot on building a themed deck then, not to be harsh, but youre thinking about it the wrong way.

          • Seritho

            Your most likely right, but theme decks are fun and even if you have several zombies and some other creatures, it still sucks that a single card can undo them in this particular way. True it may not be much different in a sense from Martial Coup or Day of Judgement. But this is definitely more creature specific which to me makes it seem slightly personal if you put it in your deck to fight a zombie deck.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

            Yeah, but then again theres Zombie Apocalypse so hey.

  • William Ranken

    Some of the cards that r spoiled on here aren’t in english and r very blurry.

    • Modestphil55

      Click on the cards to see some translated text.

  • Futbolarsenalhenry

    It’s Double Cast not Double Throw, also, Stromkirk Heirs.

    • Seritho

      I am not so sure that it is Double Cast and not Double Throw. It is a creature enchantment rather than an instant so it could be Double Throw to differentiate it from the red instant.

  • Futbolarsenalhenry

    Also, Chained Geist

  • Seritho

    I don’t like Avacyn more because she is so vanilla. She is kind of like the stay puffed marshmellow man. Big, bad, all kinds of trouble and most of what you throw at her won’t do anything. But with the right tactics you could deal with her. I just wish they had made her more diverse. Frankly I think the other three legendary angels are way more interesting.

  • Seritho

    True and since this set is going to be a big one we still have quite a few rares and even a Mythic rare or two left to reveal. But even so, Wolfir = Wolf Warrior instead of Werewolf. Zombies are being majorly kicked in the bony rear with just a few of the cards out so far, let alone all of the others plus what might still be coming. And there has been one Vampire thus far revealed. In the whole set there was only 1 Legendary Vampire, 2 Legendary Zombies and absolutely no Legendary Werewolves. And you have to admit, the trailer for this set was very much in favor of the Happy Ending via Angels kick ass and take names. Given the number of mythics thus far, which is the favorite rarity for Legendary creatures these days, the odds of any plot related characters coming out is rather low. So no Tovolar, no whatever the other two Alphas were, no sign of the freakin Necromancers that made Mikaeaus into a Zombie in the first place. Just feels really incomplete. But there is enough of that, maybe, just maybe Wizards will surprise me with something cool…I hope.

  • Nathan_Carver

    There is something unnerving about the fact that there is a triumph for both Liliana and Garruk, I would kinda hate to see Garruk go out.

  • BenjaminTerror

    I know there are still many cards to be revealed but im not seeing a way to make a good draft deck yet.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Good draft decks are all about individual cards. So far i see a lot of great draft cards. For example, that equipment that gives you a 4/4 angel every time an equipped creature attacks.

      • BenjaminTerror

        That is true im just not seeing a lot of synergy yet just a ton of Fatties

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

          Well anything with soulbond has built in synergy. I think you’re going to find that draft format for this set is a great deal slower than it was for Innistrad block. The average CMC of the whole set seems to be higher in general. I can’t say this upsets me much. I thought Innistrad block drafts were entirely too fast, with the game being decided far too quickly. The idea that a one drop like Stromkirk Noble could potentially go all the way in a draft game was stupid. The whole set hasn’t been revealed yet but theres a lot less removal and a lot of new removal avoidance cards. This draft format is going to be all about turning guys sideways and combat math and I have no complaints.

  • Moxis86

    BR Deck with Vexing Devil and Undying evil Turn 2 cast Vexing Devil if they have you sacrifice it cast Undying Evil on it and it returns stronger and forces them to either lose 4 more health or let you get an even stronger Vexing Devil

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    Dangerous bet is AMAZING.

  • Justinjenkins93

    Has everyone forgotten about Fireblast? It’s 4 damage that is essentially FREE.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Haven’t forgotten about Fireblast…its just not in Standard. And I dont know if sacrificing 2 lands can really be considered free. Its kind of like a “if you dont win you lose” situation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/darkceltic Josh Darkceltic Gilmer

    Homicidal seclusion, win drafts

  • KingPose

    Vexing Devil is only really good if you’re going first. Because the turn after you play him, they’ll have the 2 mana they need for just about any way to remove it.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      LOL if they want to waste removal on my one drop they can be my guest. Please, go ahead and empty your hand getting rid of my vexing devils.

  • Josh

    yea vexing devil is so amzing i think itl get probably banned in some format cuz thas just frickin ridiculous.

  • Mike Ayers

    Quit posting shitty res images. I’ll just be patient and check on Wizard’s page to not ruin the fun…

    • OSkarminolov

      If you want to just wait, then why did you come here in the first place? If you don’t like it then just leave, don’t complain about it. Obviously a lot of people like to see these spoilers, and have fun doing so.

  • Josh

    yes vexiiing devils gunna be THE avaycyn restored red card…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

    The effect of primal surge is hilarious. Too bad it costs 10 mana. Clearly an EDH card.

  • Fibiog

    vexing devil sucks. if you need creatures, your opponent takes the 4 damage. if you need to deal damage, your oppenent lets it come in as a creature…

    • quest

       dont count it as a creature until turn 3/4+
      I will be using it with brimstone turn 4. you take 4? then i brimstone you for 5. making 9 damage in 1 turn

  • Kurasakei22

    EDH how this set loves you

  • Spiderslayers

    Lol you can still combo vexing Devil with Undying evil.

    • BenjaminTerror

      I dont think you can because Vexing Devil wont actually be in play his ability will activate before he hits the board so undying evil wouldnt have a target and fizzle

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

        Newp vexing devil says “when vexing devil enters the battlefield” which by definition means the creature is on the battlefield. The creature spell resolves, vexing devil is on the battlefield, and the trigger goes on the stack. That trigger can be responded to with undying evil.

  • BenjaminTerror

    Yes Pillar of Flames= New Shock

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      Except its sorcery speed which is really too bad.

  • Nightmarenickc

    im liking white weenie right now. and red….boros?

  • Josh

    you CAN undying evil him cuz he has to get into play thats his trigger.

  • Dkm003jack

    Freaking Angel of Jubilation is insane. It shuts down a lot of cards and that’s only the half of it! For Four! I don’t play white weeny, but my friend does and when the set rolls over this would be an o.k. replace Hero of Bladehold. Not a game ender, like Hero, but still good.

    • Guest

      I agree completely. Personally, I’m going to love using it in EDH against some decks based on sacrifice (e.g. Ghave). Hey, it might even pair with Sigarda, keeping sacrifices down on both ends.

  • Joeajones81

    I don’t understand y vexing devil might not b as good as every1 thinks as summ people have suggested?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

       Its incredible. Some people just don’t know how to properly evaluate the usefulness of cards.

  • Joeajones81

    What does every1 think of Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

      I thought he was really good, but then dangerous bet was spoiled. Rather just run dangerous bet for the same cost (and instant speed), pitch a worthless hand, and draw 2 cards. His -4 is pretty bad and his -8 is never going to happen. If he was the only way for mono red to draw cards in the set he would have more value, but he isnt so he sucks.

  • HellsAngle145248412214

    Ways to get rid of Vexing Devil…….

    Mental Mistep….pay life
    Surgical Extraction….pay life

    • meowmix

      True, but in terms of standard, those cards will not be here for much longer. Plus, there might be more cards from m13, and Return to Ravnica that can stop Vexing Devil.

      • KingPose

        They won’t get cycled out until Return to Ravnica SIX MONTHS FROM NOW.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5IS55LXRNHX5ZV3WDC5ILDHM5E AndrewW

           Paying 2 life and losing a card isnt all that much better than losing 4 life. As to surgical extraction..not really sure i would want to make vexing devils the target. Depends on the situation.

  • Blitzballace93

    You guys are slacking. The entire set has already been revealed

  • http://www.facebook.com/cptchill Alex Chappell

    Okay, to all of you saying vexing devil ISN’T good, are you stupid? that card will be dominating standard because, lets face it, making your opponent lose a fifth of their life is never bad. And to all of you praising mental misstep….go ahead and use it! ill just use mine to counter yours. good job taking 6 that turn.

    It will also dominate modern cause of a little card called Ranger of Eos. Lets face it, this card is damn sexy and I think the 12 – 15 that its priced at now is only gonna go up.  

    • KingPose

      Except for anyone running removal. “Oh, Vexing Devil? Okay, I’ll just destroy it/burn it/bounce it/exile it then.”

  • KingPose

    Bant Humans is lookin’ reeeeaaaaaal viable…

  • guest

    Riders of Gavony, good bye tribal.

  • Bruce Townsend

    i wanna run a deck with griselbrand he looks like a fun guy xD

  • Xzoah

    A word of advice to the designers: don’t do the Zendikar thing again. I liked the feel of Innistrad. But now four of the five legendary creatures are angels and Grizzlebrand is already dead in the story… Well now what? Also, Where is my Legendary Werewolf? There is no excuse to be had:
    The story didn’t call for one? Tovolar, Skaharra, and Ulrich were there from the beginning.
    Weird flip legendary mechanics… then what is Withengar doing? 
    Also: Tovolar doesn’t transform anyway.
    And now we’re not getting any werewolves at all… Just Wolf Warriors, which are cool, I’ll admit…. but we only get two of them? What?
    That, and Cavern of Souls is offensive to me… Seriously, what the garbage is that about?

  • Maliktarrant

    Cavern of Souls+Favorable Winds+Spirits=F B/U control.  

  • Stomptheman

    I think Demonlord of Ashmouth is pretty sweet.  Not sure if he would be good in standard though

  • Darthkoo

    Vexing Devil is one of the most op cards in magic history.

  • J_lozier

    vexing devil+sun titan=win

  • Friendofloki

    Magnus….Oh, my freaking god.

  • SBW

    While Vexing devil is very good, it is far from the best card out of this set. It’s powerful, but honestly even if you run it as a 4 of, you’re probably only going to see 1, maybe 2 a game. by turn 4 vexing devil is almost irrelevant. His ability is meant purely for early game, because any deck running wurmcoil engine or batterskull or Sword of war and peace, honestly do not give the slightest crap about vexing devil. He’s a fantastic one drop. Yet this card isn’t going to break standard, and he sure as hell isn’t going to break legacy. Also Cavern of souls is really bad, having to rely on a land to get your creatures out doesn’t really sound, viable. especially with ghost quarter still in the format.

    • Oskarminolov

      Although I completely agree with you about Vexing devil, I have to say I think you are wrong about Cavern of Souls. Cavern negates a lot of counter spells. It causes your opponents to be holding basically useless cards in their hand. It helps the game shift to something more removal based. Plus if you have creatures who are a very big key to the success of your game, then having a way to evade a counterspell is something really worth putting in your deck. 

  • Miguel1760

     worst expansion made ever

  • Miguel1760

    wow f this pack and avacyn, akroma best angel card ever made . also livala angel of silence , why didnt they bring back those cards really avacyn st up id card hated this exapansion wakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk…. cant wait the guilds they school inistrad no unfence on sorin he is badas

  • Tonga

    I really like this set, but I think that black kind of got screwed over this time. And what’s the deal with the Vexing devil? It’s not that great of a card.

  • vman

    Wizards if the coast Y u no make more powerful black cards? It’s like if anyone uses white acavyn restored cards they can’t lose
     

  • LPENIGER

    AANNGGEELLSS

  • Nurrrr

     Vexing Devil? Pay 4 life and its gone, oh no! You have to gain life which you would do anyway!

  • kick your faces

    i think avacyn herself kinda blows in constructed, way to much cost if your good you should win before then

  • kick your faces

    she is good in EDH though
     

  • Cjchildress1515

    commanders authority on champion of the parish=awsome

  • EulersIdentity

    Why the hell is black getting all this draw ability?  That should be reserved for mostly blue and sometimes green.  I don’t think black is distinguished enough, it takes too many abilities from the other colors  

  • skourd

    btw,i believe that if you control progenitus,avacyn and sigarda,your progenitus cannot be harmed by anything lol