• MTG fan

    This is garbage! You’ll nevertheless dump your hand by turn 4 when it comes in! Actually, maybe in my burn deck… This isn’t bad actually. It is pretty balanced

  • Kahai

    Whelp, i was wrong. Is okay. XD

    Looks cool.

  • Delipha

    Quite dissapointed. I can’t help but compare this to Purphoros and think how bad Hazoret is. Just because it’s red,doesn’t mean it has to suck, Wizards

    • Dan Lindsley

      Same, really. I was hoping for a better mono-red commander. : / Purphoros has the same mana cost, higher strength/toughness, and you don’t even have to discard; you can deal 4 damage to each opponent just by casting Dragon Fodder, with the added bonus of extra tokens on the field. I’m sorta clenching my teeth for the other gods to blow Hazoret out of the water.

      • Dan Lindsley

        Though I *suppose* it would be interesting with Hellbent and Madness.

        • Dan Lindsley

          …Except only 21 hellbent/madness mono-red cards exist. Hm.

      • De’Elgathor

        Yeah, but Purphoros has a more difficult to satisfy animation clause. I can remove your red devotion and keep you off swinging Purphoros, but I’d have to force you to draw cards to turn off Hazoret.

        • Delipha

          I am looking at this from na EDH point of view,and it sucks. I don’t want it to be Purphoros,but it’s nice to try and give red a fighting chance once in a while. Who,why and when would bother to put this in an EDH deck is beyond me,and this is funny cuz I’m builing a Sedris right now,and Sedris needs some discard,and Hazoret is a not even a consideration because it’s useless. Maybe in standart/modern it won’t suck so much but in the format that card draw matters,she is useless.

      • wadledo

        Are you saying that you’d like to see a better Purphoros, a card that practically wins games just by being the 99?
        While I agree that Hazoret is pretty meh, it’s still less catastrophic than Purphoros, which is a good thing in my book.

        • Dan Lindsley

          Oh Lord no, I’m saying that Purphoros already pings opponents better than Hazoret, and I’d like to see something different from mono-red.

  • Jordan

    Meh… disappointed but not really. It is red after all.

  • zDRIBAS

    well is this lantern control new win con?

  • Jordan

    Looks like they are pushing the fast red small aggro deck. Again. Getting really old. Red really needs an increase in their share of the pie.

  • Divine Shadow

    Awful job for card design. All care I had for new gods that would be great is out the window. WotC get more creative with red because this is just sad. At least if this was 3 color it would have been playable.

  • Serj

    Whay everyone is complaying? This in a Burn deck is gold

    • Krhaynes1

      How? You’re paying 3 to deal two damage. I can deal 2 damage for one with shock.

      • Brogan Justicar Gibbons

        in EDH with dictate of the twin gods and other effects, nuke your opponents all the time

      • Dr. Burn Crow

        It’s a potential madness triggerer and would work well with flashback.
        Also, it says each opponent. That’s solid for EDH.

        • Krhaynes1

          Oh without a doubt its good for EDH. I guess to clarify it’s not good for standard burn, average at best because of madness enabler.

        • Zombie

          I’d rather play Purphoros. Or pretty much any decent Red commander.

      • Serj

        You put it ina burn deck so you doesnt even have to discard you just paly your one mana spells and at some point you trhow this.

      • wadledo

        And then you run out of shocks, still haven’t killed anyone, and I’m still doing 2+5 damage to you every turn.

        • Krhaynes1

          Okay, so in this hypothetical burn deck, you assume I only have 4 shocks and no other burn, and also assuming you have emptied your hand so you can attack me?

          • wadledo

            And in this hypothetical Hazoret deck, I also have shocks, that I have most likely either used as 2 damage to your face (in 1v1) or hit everyone for 2 with (in multiplayer). And no, my hand isn’t empty, it has one card in it, because to swing with Hazoret I only need 1 or less cards. (Spoiler: The card in hand is counterspell.)

      • NC

        More like 2RR to deal 2 and then 3

        • Krhaynes1

          That’s contingent on discarding Fiery Temper, which you only have four of.

          • Kahai

            There are plenty of cards to bring stuff back to your hand.

          • Krhaynes1

            There are, but how efficient is that? Especially in standard which is my skepticism of this card. Now granted sure we don’t know what all will be in this set, but I’m very hesitant to say she will be good in standard.

          • Brams

            We know they are pushing two new mechanics that benefit from creatures or spells being in the graveyard. I’m cautiously optimistic this card will do some work.

      • MrAptronym

        Yeah, but when we both draw a land on turn 5 I am dealing 2 damage and you aren’t doing any. (Also, when it is the most/ 2nd most expensive card in your hand as it often will be, you get a 5/4 indestructible haste swing)

        • Krhaynes1

          That’s a very big “what if” scenario. How about this, what if I’m running R/B with burn and turn five draw grasp…All I’m saying is she isn’t efficient. Granted we don’t know what else is in this set to possibly make her better, but rn I’m hesitant to say she will be good in standard.

          • MrAptronym

            It’s not a terribly unlikely scenario, you have about a 1 in 3 chance to draw a land. Though her activated might not be the highest mana-to-damage ratio, it is also repeatable. I think she is a pretty efficient card for making sure you finish off an opponent.

            If you have cards in hand, great, cast them. If you don’t, cast her last and start swinging. Her ability doesn’t have to be efficient, it is just a way to add a lot of consistency to your end-game. Red decks often need a way to keep from petering out. If you draw something useful, then you should cast it, her ability comes in when you don’t. She is still an indestructible, Hasty 5/4 as long as your hand is mostly empty.

            EDIT: And if your opponent is at 2 life (Or 7 and can’t block) then pitch the grasp to her :P

    • Dr. Burn Crow

      Because people assume discard means bad and we don’t have any idea how graveyard interaction will be in this set.

      • Kahai

        Fiery Temper + this guy 5 damage for four mana. :3

        • Dr. Burn Crow

          At least. Let’s not forget it deals 2 to EACH opponent. That’s got some seriously deadly potential in the right EDH deck.

    • TheAweDude

      Because people are looking at half the card.

      Some people are seeing a 5/4 Indestructible Haste that will never attack.
      Others are seeing what amounts to an enchantment with R2, Discard a Card: Deal 2 damage to players.

      I see a goddamn 5/4 Indestructible Haste for four.

    • Aurore

      Because I want my gods to feel like gods, not some burn deck lord.

      • Kaiser

        And how a god need to feels like? cause Theros Gods were cool just cause other cards were so bad and mana symbols so important.

        • Aurore

          I’d like a god to feel godlike. And something that would feel godlike would be something high power without requiring you tailoring your deck to its purposes. I wanted gods to be build-around, but not to the extent of this card.

          • Dr. Burn Crow

            It’s almost like it’d be hard to command and control a god…

    • Erik López Barcelar

      Agreed, imo this could be quite good in a burn deck. Burn decks main problem is it takes very few turns for them to run out of fuel. This goddess here takes advantage of it and can hit really hard as soon as she gets on the battlefield, and being indestructible is quite a nuissance to deal with. Also, the mana ability is not that great but normally you’ll be using it by turn 5 or further. By that time any burn deck begins to struggle due to lack of cards, and probably any extra land will be useless, so by paying 3 mana that you wont be needing for anything else you can give an actual use to those extra lands to finish the enemy while hitting with an indestructible 5/4. As a finisher shes awesome. And yes, should work as a late engine for madness. Not the best engine there is, but its still there.

    • Zombie

      Burn player of over a decade here.

      This is not a burn spell, and does less damage than burn spells, and requires us to play less burn spells, and makes us discard burn spells.

      This is literally trash in a Burn deck.

      An aggressive creature-based Red deck in Standard might want it, because they can actually get away with running something this horrifically inefficient just so they can throw away junk they don’t want to play to dome their opponent for 2.

      My playtesting group decided to show this to me earlier, I hadn’t checked spoilers yet today.

      I almost threw up.

      • Felipe Rodrigues

        Can’t deal damage with unwanted lands you draw in the late game.

        • Zombie

          Why are you drawing unwanted lands in a deck with 18-19 lands.

          Late game? What’s late game?

          Why are you playing an aggressive red deck worrying about late game?

          • Shagoth

            When you’re losing.
            Like, after someone forced you to discards, you played your last burn spell in your hand, they are reduced to two from it, and you are going to die unless your lucky with your top deck, but you unfortunately draw a mountain? Happens in burn a lot.

          • Zombie

            But what if Hazoret was just another burn spell instead of a useless 4 mana do-nothing excuse of a card?

            Then you just win anyway.

            Or if it was another creature that isn’t terrible and can actually attack BEFORE you dump your hand, that 2 life they’re left at is already gone from a single attack from another creature.

            Hazoret’s garbage.

          • Shagoth

            You’re right, I don’t think this guy is good for burn, or anything that’s completely aggressive. Heck, I think this guy isn’t even competitive and is pretty fringe.
            But let’s look at the fringe madness deck, AKA, the most pushed standard deck to never do anything. Though the deck has been more aggressive in the past, it’s not a deck that can’t go a midrange esc route. Feasibly, Hazoret would be a good top to mid curve creature. You have a couple of cards in hand but you want to madness them for value, because as is, they cost too much. You lay down hazoret, he doesn’t do anything this turn but you swing. No one is dead yet, now it’s your turn, between your or your opponent’s turns, you madness away while adding an extra two points of damage to each spell or creature, swing with an additional five, and win. I don’t see this even seeing much play there, but Hazoret is okay. Will probably be a cute little fringe god.

          • Felipe Rodrigues

            It doesn’t matter how many lands you have, you can still flood. It doesn’t matter if you’re playing an aggressive red deck, you’re not gonna win all the games, people will kill your creatures, sometimes going to the late game is beyond your control. One of the weaknesses of aggressive red decks is that if you get to the late game you’ll probably lose because your deck has lost steam and folds to the opponent’s card advantage, and every land draw is a dead draw, but this god gives you extra late game reach.

          • Zombie

            So you’re banking Hazoret’s playability entirely on flooding out in an 18-19 land deck?

          • Felipe Rodrigues

            Nope, I’m banking it on the fact that she beats for 5 with haste and is indestructible, with the situational upside of giving you a much better late game chance. Not rocket science.

          • Zombie

            She beats for 5 when she’s your last out. And indestructible is a noob trap. Plenty of non-damage/destruction removal is premium in Standard, and it all makes you pull your hair out for being stupid enough to play Hazoret when it kills her.

            Hazoret is either horrendously win-more or back-breakingly slow to turn on and will usually be a lose-con instead of a wincon.

            Hellbent is one of the worst mechanics in the game for a reason. This is “Slightly Less Garbage Hellbent”.

          • Felipe Rodrigues

            It doesn’t matter if there is removal that kills her, you’ll still win games because the opponent either didn’t draw them or didn’t have them in the deck to begin with, plus being indestructible means the opponent can’t get profitable double or even triple blocks, which would be possible with a non-indestructible creature, and it ignores deathtouch.

            Being slightly less garbage hellbent might just be what the ability needs to become relevant, we shall see.

    • I doubt it. A legendary four-drop basher, with an overpriced ability, that you often can’t use on turn four, is not really the most enticing pitch for a burn deck. Indestructible is barely relevant to a burn strategy (it doesn’t even have trample, which is far more valuable). Even within Standard, why would a burn/aggro player want to use this over Lathnu Hellion?

      The only way this sees play is in some kind of gimmicky Madness deck.

  • Dr. Burn Crow

    Something intriguing to build around. I like it. Will all the Amonkhet gods have spellshaper powers with caveats on attacking and blocking?

    • Krhaynes1

      Yes, they all have conditions that have to be satisfied. It’s in MaRo’s article today.

      • Dr. Burn Crow

        I’ve not read that yet. I will now.

  • Kahai

    So from the standpoint of no idea what other red spells are in the set:

    There shouldn’t be a problem for a mono-red burn deck to get to 2-3 cards by turn four. Assuming one of those is your fourth land, this guy, and your set. If you’ve had him in hand for a while, you should have burned down all the other creatures in the way so she gets in clean.

  • Aurore

    “We decided to make the gods monocolor to increase the amount of decks people can put them in”
    First god previewed only works in burn and rush decks.

    • Kahai

      I kinda of want to go make better versions of all the gods once they spoil them all… It really feels like they are slowing down just because they can.

    • Together Alone

      to be fair if it was R/W or something it would be much worse.

      • Aurore

        They could have made it monored and not be so limited in only being good in burn and rush. I was expecting a god to do something I don’t see on every third red card.

  • Ryū

    Hazorat, Metrion, Zinthos! I’m sorry, I had to. She’s…interesting? I need to see the other gods.

  • MrAptronym

    Aimed at a specific strategy for sure, but I’d say she fits that particular strategy very well. A bit less useful in EDH, where you tend to have costlier cards and not empty your hand so quickly, but the second ability should function a bit better there. I wish there was more red madness to fill an EDH deck with because she’d be an amazing commander for it. Hopefully she fits into a set theme well that could help flesh out a deck around her.

  • Kumrag

    Not sure what people are expecting of this card. Sure it fits a specific strategy, and ask any RDW player how he feels about that. I love some mono red, and this sitting towards the top of the curve in an aggro deck is fine by me. It fits the God theme to me as well, I could see it alongside the Theros gods.

    • Aurore

      People were expecting this card to designed for more than just a very, very specific type of deck. Especially with Maro saying they made the gods monocolor to allow them to be used in more decks, people were expecting something much more splashy than “play burn deck.”

      • Together Alone

        It’s not just one type of deck though. This could see play in a R/X vampire deck, a madness shell, aggro shell and a burn shell. Its not as limited as you think.

        • Aurore

          Those are all just aggro or burn decks under a different name.

          • Together Alone

            Madness was in esper colours, could be a control deck also. ;) Its fine to have creatures that have a more narrow purpose, everything can’t be good in everything like Gideon.

          • Aurore

            No, but gods shouldn’t have a purpose this narrow. Look at the splashability of the Theros gods.

      • Knuclearknight

        What else are you doing in red?. You are playing aggro or burn. Each have no problem getting hellbent.

        • Aurore

          The problem is, the payoff for going hellbent is mediocre. I could be playing fatties in red/green, or spell control in red/blue, but this pretty much limits me to mono-red or red/white aggro or whatever. And when I inevitably empty my hand… I get what? A 5/4? If they wanted this to be for aggro decks I’d like for it to help aggro decks a little more. Make it feel like a god that you want to build a deck around, not just something to throw into any old deck.

  • Brian Schmidt

    I feel most of us saw some of these gods as dual colored. Here is what would have been a cooler thing, in my eye to do. Make it a mono color to cast and have a different color for its ability. Like this god should have been white to cast but the ability red so you could play in boros colors.

    • Daniel Kaine Allen

      I disagree, the only thing having to use more colors accomplishes is more colors for edh. Also once they spoiled the invocations it became pretty clear they were all mono color

  • Brian Schmidt

    Also, doesn’t her stances remind you of a certain Theros god. Oh, I don’t know, Heliod?

    • Erik López Barcelar

      Please no. Not another divine jerk.

    • Derek Fallows

      Indeed. It’s also unimpressive mechanically… again, like Heliod.

  • Justahighschooler

    Anyone have any idea how to play this in edh….? I was really looking forward to this card and still wanna build around it due to the art.

    • Aurore

      Play it as a worse Jaya Ballard. And a worse Purphoros. In EDH it’s worse than a lot of things.

    • alexander macrae

      Purphoros is a good commander. This is not. Pitching you hand just for a 5/4 with indestructible and haste is not good. At all. Even if you put in every madness and graveyard interaction card that red has, and you have a copy of Crucible of Worlds, Hazoret just isn’t good enough to lead a deck. Maybe in 1v1, where a mono-red burn deck can do its thing, but Red’s biggest weakness in commander is that fact that it just doesn’t scale well in multiplayer.

    • Together Alone

      Its kinda really bad in commander especially as a commander.

      • Kahai

        You could build a very interesting deck around her. Red had madness vampires, as well as madness in general. Through in artifacts to accelerate and refill your hand with good stuff and this could do some damage. You can also double the activated ability to get in for four with illusionist’s bracers.

        Considering her last ability hits all opponents and not target is huge by itself. While it is certainly no Purphoros, would you want it to be?

        I’d rather they feel like different creatures than get the same legendaries over and over.

        • Aurore

          I would love for this to feel like a different creature. And by “different creature” I mean completely different, not just Purphoros with slight differences. Red god that doesn’t burn when?

  • Typhuzuzu13

    So these things can still be killed by exile effects right? (Well not killed but removed from existence) because if so… I mean murder is great and all but if these things become common, there are plenty of exile cards..

    • Typhuzuzu13

      Also, fling the gods! They’d never expect it!

      • Together Alone

        ooooh that could be good. Run some gods in a metalwork colossus shell, start flinging them into all the faces.

  • Guest

    So according to MaRo all the gods have the following:

    Indestructible + keyword
    They can only attack & block conditionally
    An activated ability to meet that condition
    and P/T ahead of the curve.

    • Kahai

      Not entirely impressed by the design. The OG gods were more flavorful… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/611d90263c40b15df5d794c54cf06fb736b83b5559caeace9ed1941f394a5f2c.gif

      • Happy The Cat

        yeah but think with that 2r she’s a worse Knollspine Invocation! my money for the other gods is your hand will need to be in a certain range of 2~3, and blue will probably get 7+ with a draw effect but you better believe if you want to play red you are going to throw away everything you have for a mildly viable 5/4!
        I wouldn’t judge all the gods on this, we all know red always gets the shaft in these.

        • Aurore

          “Red always gets the shaft in these”
          Purphoros laughs at you

          • Daniel Kaine Allen

            Purphoros is from a block where most of the cards were terrible anyway, and hasn’t seen much play outside of standard.

          • Aurore

            Except, you know, in EDH. Where he destroys.

          • Happy The Cat

            yeah, the card that wizards admitted was much stronger than it was supposed to be is an exception that kinda proves what I’m saying. the only reason that purph is so strong is wizards actually forgot red had big token makers that could break a four mana Warstorm Surge.
            Also the other four were generally much better in limited cause you didn’t have to build around them for them to snowball into a win.

          • Aurore

            Which, you know, is kind of what I want out of gods. To feel godlike.

          • Happy The Cat

            you must not have played during theros block, the only godlike cards were Master of waves, elspeth, sun’s champion and Whip.

          • Aurore

            And I can’t picture a snowball effect win coming with this girl unless it’s a miracle topdeck. Too fidgety. I know all to well how powerful those cards in Theros block were. Doesn’t mean that the gods weren’t powerful cards.

    • Kahai

      I’m standing my ground that we’ve past Peak MaRo. He’s going down hill at this point. I wish it wasn’t true.. XD

      • Nick Art

        I mean feel free to make this joke, but I’ll have Rosewater over Brode anyday of the freaking week.

        Seriously, what happened with Hearthstone was a tragedy of mismanagement and the hubris to believe a 9 class system could be sustainable.

  • Jude

    ….so one half of the hellbent strategy. I mean it exists and was supported. Right now this is kind of a madness enabler. It has a home. It may not dethrone copycat or vehicles but it has a home

  • Shagoth

    Vampire Madness, the most pushed deck to never do anything.

    • Mov

      It was probably a big archetype in the FFL though… Yeah this card is a disappointment. The ability is too expensive.

  • Timothy Barker

    First look: underwhelming. But then, i realised it works well with everything in this set, plus itself

    • Aurore

      What, specifically, does it work well with? I have seen zero cards so far with graveyard interaction in Red.

      • Shagoth

        This isn’t graveyard interaction, there are going to be cards that like discarding in red this set. Think Torment, without the awful random clause or the awesome Grim Lavamancer.

        • Aurore

          “there are going to be cards that like discarding in red this set”
          *Cite
          From what I see, Red is about exert. Nearly every red card we’ve gotten besides this one is exert card. I don’t think that will be all, but it seems a big part.

          • Shagoth

            This card and the new Jackal common, seem like they are enough proof as is. We don’t have that much evidence, but the fact that there’s already a standard deck that Wizards has tried to push and failed for almost four blocks now and that the god which represents red this time around has a strategy that screams a certain strategy makes it seem like discard will be a theme. Also cycling and the aforementioned Jackal.

          • Aurore

            1. Cycling is not discarding because you aren’t going minus. This card doesn’t care about cycling since cycling eats into your mana without actually decreasing handsize.
            2. The Jackal is an uncommon, not a common. So while it might be a theme, it isn’t going to be “madness 2.0” or anything.
            “The god which represents red this time around has a strategy that screams a certain strategy makes it seem like discard will be a theme”
            Ultimately, though, this is just furthering my point. I wanted gods to be flavorful and splashy. Not “this card has to be used this way in this deck or it sucks.”

          • Shagoth

            Seeing other cards, it looks like I’m right. The majority of the red cards so far involve discard.

      • Timothy Barker

        Lots of cards are useful to discard or have cards discarded. That jackel with whenever you discard a card, it gets +1+0 until end of turn. Also you could have a two colored deck.

  • dude

    we already have mono and dual color gods. why cant we get tri color gods

    • Aurore

      Because they want you to be able to use them in more decks. Supposedly.

      • dude

        i just want a grixis god

        • Happy The Cat

          bolas is godlike, why not play him?

          • dude

            because i also want god esper

          • Happy The Cat

            chromium?

    • Shagoth

      Because Purphorus is a blight on commander.

  • Kaiser

    This god works with madness, red is the best madness color. So this card CAN BE actually powerfull, also you will ever first hit for 5 with she and then draw cards. Standard playable? yes. Flameblade Adept works very well with this too.

    • Happy The Cat

      considering there are only 2 actually good red madness cards and everything else was mostly pack fillers( heck the best creature here would be a 4/3 with haste for six mana and shock each opponent) I’m going to go ahead a disagree with you. Madness is generally a rather bad ability to begin with, with basking rootwalla being the only one that was viable thanks to madness 0 letting it be a counter to hand hate.

      • Kaiser

        i never said something like “madness is a epic mechanic” what i said was: red is the best color for madness. You need to draw a lot of card and more to actually do something epic in competitive. But i dont care about competitive really, i think people expected too much about the god of this set just cause the creature type and that is a very very big mistake. All we know that a lot of mythic cards are not as good to be built around in competitive. We use commander to justify that they are good in a slow format cause no one can kill our legendary weird over expensive or normally useless card.

        Theros gods were used because their enchantment status, they provide useful effects for free with a hard to kill body, Dragonlords because they were the “best” finishers for control in that time in standard.

        Mythic means (in this present) that is good in limited and good in standard, aaand probably good in modern. Sometimes one card like Karn Liberated find his place in a deck that can afront played it and just for that is super good, just for that: without tron how many decks would be able to play Karn on turn 3-4 and win the game cause is just brutal play a 7 mana planeswalker so early?.

        • Aurore

          Except this card is utter trash in commander, so that argument doesn’t really fly. So if it isn’t meant to be used competitively in standard, that means this card was designed to be sub-par in pretty much every format it could see play in. Even in limited this card seems terrible.

          • Kaiser

            In limited go to topdecking quickly is more common in red so this will be basically a 5/4 indestructible creature with haste for 4 mana, seem bad to you? you need to spend at least 5 mana for a -4 / -4 or a exile common effect. The problem with this god, the problem that probably all this god will have is this: they are not enchanment. People go after the artifact-gods idea for this, creatures that every time are creatures can be resolve in more ways.

            In a vacum space i can just agree with that. Amonkhet gods could be the worse gods cause they are not from theros so they cant be hard to kill has theros gods. Also, they decide to put active abilitys on them “that is poor design choose cause Theros gods were non creature permanents with no act abs”

  • Derek Niles

    more single-colored gods…boo

    Card wise, a little underwhelming considered to the Theros gods, but still could be a sweet card if it finds the right home

    • Knuclearknight

      15 theros gods. How many are worth a damn? Its under half the amount that got put out.

      • Daniel Scott

        True, it’s not close to the best ones, but I think it beats a good few of the lower.

      • Derek Niles

        Well if you include EDH, pretty much all the God’s except for maybe like 2 of the 15 are very good in their respective decks. That is why I said he’s underwhelming but could be good if he finds the right deck and format

  • Mov

    Ummm… so even just the creature part of BFZ Gideon is better than this. Without even accounting for Gids abilities. At the same cmc. I mean I know that comparing cards to Gideon is silly given that Gids is OP, but this seems UP at 4 cmc. Seems like it wouldn’t have been a problem for the cmc to cost 1 less would it? Could’ve actually made aggro viable (and likely wouldn’t have fed Mardu vehicles since they can already crew their vehicles with 1 2 and 3, and they would want to hold on to removal anyway).

    Actually the more I think about it the worse this current design seems: it wants me to be hellbent on turn 4 when my opponent can kill me with copycat unless i hold up removal…

    • Knuclearknight

      Gideon swings for 5 the turn he enters? Crazy must have mised that. Also in a red deck there is no reason you cant empty your hand t4 and not entirely any reason to hold onto your hand depending on the deck you are using. Also you can hold 2 cards in hand on your opponents turn and dump a card and block. I dont get all this hate for this card. I would tale this over 80% of the mythics from aether revolt.

      • Mov

        You don’t have to pitch most of your hand to make Gideon do anything worthwhile. And this is not a format where you want to pitch most of your cards when they could easily just kill you with infinite cats the next turn…

        Btw if the ability let you shock a creature or player, and if it cost 1 mana less to activate then I’d be ecstatic with the card. As is it just doesn’t seem all that great for a God.

        Also as to whether this is a better mythic then most of the aer ones, I think most of the mythics are not tremendously playable in constructed. I’d be surprised if this is either. As for limited, yeah this will be a bomb. But it’ll still be weak to good pacifism/o ring effects since they’ll be able to punish you for pitching your hand to turn him on.

        • KnuclearKnight

          Im just saying they are diffrent cards, with diffrent appeals. and color matters. My fevered vision deck constantly dumps its hand and often sits on 1 card (normally a counter spell). But even if i were to have 2 cards in hand and the opponent attack i could dump a card than block. Gideon would never work for my FV deck, Hazoret takes place where goldnight casti would be as a top of the curve finisher.

    • Felipe Rodrigues

      The copy cat combo was a mistake and Felidar should have been banned already, using the combo as a way to measure a card’s worth is insanity. The card is good.

      • Mov

        Ignoring the most powerful combo in standard when evaluating a card that was designed to be played in standard is insanity. I will evaluate the cards according to the way standard currently is.

        Fwiw if this card cost 1cmc less then it could have been an on board answer to the combo. As is, it is a liability.

        When WOTC sees sense and bans the cat then I’ll re evaluate the card according to the new format.

        • Felipe Rodrigues

          The way you evaluate doesn’t make sense to begin with, just because a card costs 4 mana it doesn’t mean you have to tap out on turn 4 to cast it, what you said to dismiss it because of the copy cat combo also applies to Gideon, but that doesn’t automatically make Gideon a bad card, all you have to do is cast him when you can still leave removal up, problem solved. Not to mention that considering the god can only attack when you’re almost hellbent, it’s much better to cast it as the last or second to last card in your hand, which won’t probably be on turn 4 either way.

          • Mov

            True you don’t have to cast it on turn 4, but you do want this to be the top of your curve since it belongs in an aggro deck. The problem is that the longer you wait to cast it the more likely they’ll have stabilised and will be able to chump block (since this card has no evasion), and again, since you don’t want to use this in a deck that reliably gets to 6 or 7 mana (or even 5 mana in an aggro deck) it’ll mean that your defences are likely down to copy cat whichever turn you cast it.

          • Felipe Rodrigues

            If they have to chump block that’s good for you, it means they won’t be blocking your other creatures and you’re not losing anything but they are.

  • Zombie

    So it looks like Wizards learned absolutely nothing from Hellbent.

    For the people who didn’t play during the original Ravnica block (specifically Dissension), I’ll let you in on a little secret:

    Cards that require you to be threat/resource-light to function properly are trash. Plain, simple, cut and dry. Done.

    Hellbent is considered one of the worst mechanics in the entire game for a reason, and this is literally just Hellbent 2.0. It’s a slightly less garbage Hellbent.

    This is so far behind the previous Red god, Purphoros, it’s not even f***ing funny.

    Hazoret does *literally nothing* useful if you play her when you’d have more than 1 card left in your hand. Which means you can only, and that’s a heavily emphasized ONLY, play Hazoret after you’ve dumped your hand and expended your threats/resources.

    That makes Hazoret either the single most win-more card in Standard, or it makes her literally useless. There is no middle ground here.

    She’s a dead card until she’s one of two cards left in your hand. Playing her offers her none of the protections that the Devotion based gods received from not being a creature.

    She can be the victim of an Edict, Exile effect, and -X/-X effect immediately. Compare this to Purphoros, who could just do 2 damage for free whenever you played your threats, investing mana into him pumped your team, and once you expended your resources and filled your board, he then became a massive 6/5 creature that slaughtered your opponent.

    I’m done settling for mediocrity from Wizards. This set is annoying me on so many levels. They had me THIS close to wanting to return to Standard with a new set that could potentially fix their design mistakes with the Shadows and Kaladesh blocks.

    No thanks.

    • Kahai

      Honestly, i want to blame MaRo. We are long past peak MaRo. i know he doesn’t control everything, but he is the head designer.

      • Kaiser

        we can, but just for forced him to past the torch. I mean the idea of “stop power-creep” has a priority of the card design is present in all the sets after the first innistrad. I really, REALLLY dont think that he is the ONLY person that is with all the things that go bad in this sets.

      • Zombie

        It’s his vision of the game that worries me

    • MrAptronym

      Being the last (or second to last) card you play doesn’t make her necessarily useless or winmore. Lots of cards have drawbacks and are still fine cards. She is clearly supposed to be a game-ender to help red burn decks not petter out once they’ve blown through their hand. “She could die to a subset of instant speed removal without doing anything” isn’t exactly news either. Purphoros can also be killed before he can have any effect. Purphoros can’t be killed by creature kill before devotion is hit, but he is susceptible to enchantment removal.

      Purphoros is a stronger card, yes, I’d agree with that. He is a very good card. That doesn’t mean that she is bad.

      • Nick Smyrnos

        He’s barely susceptible to enchantment removal, he’s still indestructible in enchantment mode and needs to be taken out with exile effects.

        • MrAptronym

          Well, there are effects that force someone to sacrifice or shuffle an enchantment as well. Even though creature removal might be more commonly used (especially the non destroy kind), both gods are indestructible. Purphoros may be harder to get rid of when your devotion is low, but once he animates he is an easier target.

    • thegodamnBatman

      So a 5/4 indestructible creature with haste is trash. When we have a previous set with a madness mechanic. Ok kid whatever.

      • Zombie

        But it can’t attack unless you’re already out of other things to do.

        5/4 Haste means nothing if its own ability literally says “This can’t attack”.

        Oh yeah Madness. You mean the mediocre deck that already has better and faster payoffs than this? And those payoffs are cards that aren’t completely dead-in-hand if you have more than one card in hand?

        Oh, and by Madness, you mean the deck completely forced out of the current competitive Standard meta by existing Tier 1 archetypes that occupy the vast majority of played archetypes in Standard?

        “Ok kid whatever.”

        You can bring that attitude to me when you’ve played for nearly 2 decades and have earned higher than Gold pro. Until then I’ll stick to calling bad cards bad while you fume to yourself on the other side of the internet.

        • thegodamnBatman

          That’s why they call them finishers. A madness or a standard burn deck always runs out of things to do pretty fast. A card that enables you to discard is never trash, unless you are completely clueless.
          You still thought Tezzeret is going to be trash, even though admittedly he is way worse than previous versions, now he is literally in every improvise decklist. Face it kid, prediction is not your strong suit.
          Saw your post about the new Gideon, had nothing bad to say cause it’s obviously a good card, you can’t find anything good to say either so the best you came up with is “too many gideons, have fun”. You don’t get it, son. I’ve met people like you before. You find something negative to say even about something really good. I don’t know if that’s hilarious or simply pathetic. So forgive me if I don’t feel the obligation to prove myself to kids like you.
          So no, by madness I mean the mechanic that gave the blue/green deck a place at the semifinals in the Berlin 2003 world pro tour back in the day, but obviously you were too young to remember that, so I don’t blame you. Now you can get back to crying about good cards, don’t let me keep you from your daily screaming and moaning, kid.

          • Nick Art

            The amount of beef made here over opinions of a hunk of cardboard is something else. Like seriously guys, think of those poor cows, they had families.

        • thegodamnBatman

          And she ended up winning the pro tour. Being in 5 decklists in the top 8 no less. That’s how “bad” she was. Next time learn to read the cards a little bit better instead of throwing a tantrum kiddo.

          • Zombie

            And she also single handedly caused multiple people to punt games that were winnable otherwise, were Hazoret not restricted from attacking.

            Shocker, a brand new Standard format with multiple bannings that shook up the meta is taken over by an aggressive Red deck.

            OH GEE WILLICKERS, WHEN HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED BEFORE??

            Hazoret’s gonna die down, just like the hype for the rest of the deck has.

            Red aggro abuses fresh metas in Type 2. That’s literally been a thing since the dawn of Magic.

            Hazoret’s riding the wave.

          • thegodamnBatman

            And she also caused people run away with games that were unwinnable otherwise, including the ones in the pro tour, just by activating her ability a couple of times.
            Oh gee weez a red deck wins that actually wins? I wonder how long THAT has been a thing in magic.
            I wonder which deck saw the spotlight and actually reaped the benefits from the recent bans and died down immediately and is not rotation proof by the way. Oh that’s right it was zombies.
            Keep having wet dreams about the new cardboard mediocrity Tom Hanks Jace becoming the next Liliana of the Veil and that the hype about ramunap red is gonna die down.
            Meanwhile the card’s value has doubled and is the most playable god in many brews and standard decklists next to Rhonas.

          • Zombie

            “And she also caused people run away with games that were unwinnable otherwise”

            Literally any huge 4 mana bomb could have done that. Except instead of doing it every game, Hazoret in half of her games literally stopped herself from doing anything because you had more than 1 card in hand, and then you lost.

          • thegodamnBatman

            “Literally any huge mana bomb could have done that.”
            No, actually very few 4 drops can do that in the current standard. We hardly have seen a Ripjaw Raptor win any pro tours. So what if you have more than 1 card in hand. That can happen 2 out of 10 games maximum. In fact, her own ability remedies that. Every card has a draw back. That’s a fools arguement. It’s like saying you shouldn’t play any artifacts because abrade is in standard. I’m afraid ramunap decks are still going strong and Hazoret is riding the wave of success. You on the other hand, you are riding the wave of denial.

  • Insight66

    Ladies, please.
    Imagine a red deck brimming with one drops, (unheard of, I know) then this Queen of the Desert hits the dunes on turn 4 and force feeds your opposition spicy land discards happily ever after.

  • So, this pretty much sucks right? I’m not missing something here? Like, I’m sure a couple people will try making fun cycling/madness decks for Standard or EDH, but this basically sucks.

    • im gonna hope that its more intended for standard. i imagine this puppy is pretty hard to get rid of. but yes you are right. its own ability doesn’t synergies with itself, and losing hand advantage in magic is almost a death sentence.
      

  • ill give this card a whopping 3/10. It’s a relatively good body to drop mid top late game in a red deck wins style deck, but the fact that you would have probably dumped your hand by this stage makes its activated ability almost useless. But the worst aspect is that its own ability does not synergies with itself once you are out of cards it can attack, but then you have no hand. If you want to lean on this card it essentailly has an upkeep cost of 2R and costs you your hand. horrible card. hopefully others are better.

    • Daniel Kaine Allen

      On the other hand, it can help you dump a basic land that you didn’t need.

    • MrAptronym

      I give it an 8/10. It is a solid body that does its work when a red deck needs it: when your hand is empty. 4CMC is probably near the top of a fast red deck’s curve anyway. The activated ability is just a bonus (and a way to keep from getting clogged and not being able to swing) that I imagine is primarily there to make use of lands you may draw late game that would otherwise be useless. You can always cast things from your hand if that is the better option, but having every card you draw have the option of being a mediocre burn spell is a fine upside.

  • Murilo Mazza

    Too bad against grasp of darkness. As long as it doesn’t see gameplay, this is great for a potential RDW. 5/4 haste indestructible for 4 manas. There is space for 2 in a list. Why people doesn’t see this?

  • Deadly Berry

    A High Risk/High Reward card. Or rather High Risk/Medium Reward. I feel like it could have +1 power to make up for that awful drawback.

    Maybe in a deck with lots of burn, discard gimmicks, etc. If your deck can’t go down to 1 card by turn 4: “This isn’t the finisher you’re looking for.” – Obi-Wan disapproves.

    • Daniel Kaine Allen

      In a set that brings back cycling, shouldn’t be that hard.

      • Mov

        ? But cycling doesn’t cost you a card…

        • Daniel Kaine Allen

          Correct, but the type of deck that you’ll want this in could allow you to cycle into a card that could be cast for cheap so that once you have the ability to cast this card you should be able to use it. If you get to turn 4 in a burn deck and still have several cards in hand, there’s a problem with your deck.

          • Mov

            Yeah i know, that why i don’t think this card is very good

  • Mr Bump

    I for one welcome our new god overlords and wish them well in their ruling endeavours.

  • manguydude

    My only real issue with this is the mono-color. For standard it seems fine, but they could have made the activated ability hybrid rakdos and at least made it a “fun” commander. I get that they don’t want to add mechanics that aren’t in the set, but hybrid mana is one of the easiest to understand and this is a mythic after all. Anyway, I actually think this exact card but with rakdos color identity would have been a super interesting boss for a madness/hellbent edh deck. There are so many sweet cards for that deck and a consistent discard outlet could get it there, but you really need the black cards that like being in the graveyard to make up for the card disadvantage. Another missed opportunity by the Wizards design team…they just keep breaking my heart :(

    • MrAptronym

      I agree, rakdos would have been more fun. I like seeing interesting mono-commanders too though. I already have a mono-red EDH so I am not 100% sure I want to build a second right now. (Plus I only have a single copy of some of the staples)

  • MrAptronym

    I am making this card my hill to die upon. I think it is good. Not spectacular, but a solid creature, and I think people are heavily underestimating her.

    • Mov

      You’re making your hill to die on on a card that you think it’s good but not spectacular? Surely your life is worth more than that!

      • MrAptronym

        I happen to really like this card in particular :P

  • asdafasda

    dragon stompy

  • kmk888

    I do think this is a totally legitimate card in RDW style builds with Key to the City and Fiery Temper.

  • doovan

    making a grixis with this in honor to the god pharaoh making it a supper cheap discard based deck with Asylum Visitor, furyblade, geralfs masterpiece, flameblade adept and distemper

  • Dr. Burn Crow

    Go back to your bunker, Uncle Adolf.

  • Ucle Adolf

    Nein, Argentina ist better