• Michael Pepin

    Nothing about it’s ability makes it a Hydra.

    • MTG fan

      Except the fact that this has 3 heads.

    • Kahai

      Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not a hydra. It has 5 heads. It’s a hydra.

      I edited my comments so that people wouldn’t comment on my being wrong again and again.

      This comment was originally about how my memory of the previous few hydra didn’t perfectly fit the ‘theme’ of what a hydra was.

  • Alucard

    This is busted, one of the best big embalm creatures yet. 6 mana 6/6 trample is good, and then paying 4 to get a token copy is insanely valuable.

  • Tolle

    Discard to some affect like cathartic reuinion and the get a 6/6 trampled for 4

  • G Cartet

    This plus that U/W cleric is a bit scary. G/U/W tokens anyone?

    • MTG420

      OMG unblockable Snake Hydra. Yes I’m all over that. I was thinking more black to get this in the graveyard faster but that commander is too good.

  • Transgendent

    Where’s the embalm token? I’d love to see what this one looks like.

  • Ryū

    So many sneks on this plane. I approve.

  • Love-Sensei

    Really disappointed with the design of this card. If they are so determined to include iconic creature types in all their sets, then they should at least put a little more effort into integrating the flavor. Hydras have typically always had variable power/toughness, in one way or another, to represent the number of heads. This is just your typical 6 cmc 6/6 booster filler, more akin to a Wurm than a Hydra. Bumped up to rare because you can play it twice, and for cheap, because Green. We’re seeing a -1/-1 counter theme in this set, why not have the Hydra come back ’emblamed’ with a few -1/-1 counters to represent heads that have been cut off? It would be flavorful, consistent with color/creature identity, and a more interesting card in my opinion.

    • NC

      It’s even practically Roar of the Wurm

    • Kahai

      @tezzybros:disqus brings up the best point:

      Death on Almondcat isn’t like death on other planes. It has 5 heads. It’s a hydra. Also, this is a fantasy world where WotC has complete control. If they want to call this a hydra, they can. It’s their card game, their lore, their money they spend on printing it.

      • Love-Sensei

        And our money we spend on buying it… Even in a fantasy world you have to draw boundaries to form a design space. Surely you’d be upset if they started printing ridiculous cards? Why belittle other’s opinions on this issue just because you don’t particularly care? A lot of us, you including I presume, have invested a lot of time and money into this game. Its as much ours as it is theirs, and we have every right to dislike the direction they are taking. Also, editing your comments to obfuscate the context of discussion is low.

        • Kahai

          Meh, get back to me when you have several people attacking you for having a slightly different opinion. My opinion was very clearly the wrong one, what’s the point in allowing MORE people to comment on my ‘wrong’ opinion? I have found editing my comments saves me more trouble than dealing with more and more people who want to tell me i’m wrong.

          You’re fully allowed to voice your criticism, but just because you don’t think it’s a hydra doesn’t change the fact that it is a hydra.

          • Love-Sensei

            You edited out factual errors about Hydras in MTG, not opinions. Either way, you can’t expect to live through life without having your opinions challenged. This is an internet chat room, I’m sure you’ll survive.

          • Kahai

            Nothing i said was ‘factually’ wrong, i certainly misspoke and had the incorrect numbers. but half of the hydra have P/T of 0. Not every Hydra has a growth ability, but the majority do.

            In the last 7 hydra that were printed (this excluded) 4/7 did not have P/T of 0.

          • Love-Sensei

            How can you claim you didn’t say anything factually wrong but also that you had incorrect numbers in the same sentence? You made a mistake, and you destroyed a perfectly fine discussion on what it means to be a Hydra in MTG in an effort to hide it.

          • Kahai

            Saying that there are 3/5 and 4/7 is not lying. It isn’t factually incorrect, it’s a misspeak. I didn’t intentionally exclude numbers to gain an advantage in the conversation.

            The conversation was me versus 2-3 people telling me how ‘wrong’ i am that this can be called a hydra. Like how dare i make a statement off pure memory. my original argument was based strictly on memory.

          • Love-Sensei

            I really don’t care whether the mistake was purposeful or not. We were telling you our opinions, which is the entire purpose of this chat room. If you’re going to remove your posts as soon as someone disagrees, why post at all? Its a waste of everyone’s time.

          • Kahai

            Deletion is a waste of time, editing isn’t.

            Anyone who reads the lower comments will know i changed my comments. I didn’t ruin your comments in any way. The fact that i only edited them and didn’t outright delete it is in your favor. I’m done with anon commenters.

          • Love-Sensei

            We both know you added a bit of context that wasn’t there when I first called you out, and what does my identity have to do with this? If you’re just going to keep deflecting without owning up to your bad habits, then I’m also done.

          • MTG fan

            I literally replied to you to be kind. Everyone here should get along.

          • Love-Sensei

            Also, if you hadn’t edited you comments we wouldn’t be having this pointless conversation.

          • MTG fan

            Pointless? You literally are the reason why this conversation between you two is still going.

          • Love-Sensei

            I can see why you think that, since he has heavily edited his comments. At least my status as an ‘anon commenter’ gives you a guarantee that my comments are unchanged.

          • Hedronal

            Anyone on the internet, reply here if you care that a random person on one spoiler thread can’t edit its posts.

          • Kahai

            I said i edited my comments to STOP additional people from commenting on my statement, which the majority of people who already responded told me ‘i’m wrong’.

            I’d rather people see my comments were edited than deal with more and more people commenting. If you really want this to go away, i will just delete my comment. Is that what you want?

          • Love-Sensei

            I’d rather you just admit that editing comments after the fact is counter-productive.

          • Kahai

            Bringing up the fact that in another thread further down was edited when i bring up a potential lore-friendly reason for this hydra not to be growing is counter-productive.

            But you’re right, i’m wrong.

          • Love-Sensei

            I’m sorry you feel bad that I called you out on your nonsense. I thought I made some very good points in a discussion I cared about, and your actions have tainted that.

          • Kahai

            At this point i’m in favor of outright deleting it. You are the antagonist in this thread. I didn’t bring up the past, you did.

          • Love-Sensei

            You can do what you like, I can only suggest what I think is right.

          • Hedronal

            Yep, you are definitely not the antagonist.

          • Love-Sensei

            I’ll gladly be the antagonist of what I think is bad etiquette.

          • Hedronal

            As opposed to making a stink about very little? That’s at least as bad etiquette.

          • MTG fan

            But it isn’t. For example, I made a comment about how I was surprised about the hydra having 5 arms(learned that thanks to @Kahai. I didn’t explain how I didn’t know about it having 5 heads, so I EDITED my comment to explain why I didn’t see it.

          • Love-Sensei

            You kept the original text because you are a considerate person. Not everyone does that.

          • MTG fan

            True. But it’s not like the end of the world changing your comments a little.

          • Kahai

            His problem is that i outright changed my comments.

          • Love-Sensei

            No, certainly not. I put a lot of thought into my comments below, and when the comment I was replying to changed dramatically I got annoyed, that’s all.

          • Hedronal

            That’s just you going off for overly little reason over the internet.

          • MTG fan

            You know, we all are wasting our time! People here are willing to fight over facts and statistics and what WoTC’s hydras should be like. Why don’t we all get along? Just correct people kindly everyone!!!

          • Hedronal

            Perhaps so that people can talk about it in the hopes that it *doesn’t* just come down to no you’re wrong a bunch of times, then get drawn into a protracted, aggressive, stupid, purposeless debate by someone in the social wrong over the internet? Note: put-downs are directed at the convo, not any person in it.

          • Love-Sensei

            I think it’s bad that this platform lets you edit your comments leaving no trace of the original, so I called out a guy for doing that. He disagreed, and so I defended my opinion. You might not agree with me either, but if you could compare his original comment, with what it looked like when I called him out, and with how it looks now, you might think differently. But you can’t, which is precisely my point.

          • Hedronal

            So maybe don’t make a stink about something that’s already gone then? Sounds like an easy way to not fight over next to nothing on the internet.

    • Kaiser

      LoL you really are mad because this is a 6/6 ?? I love the people. This set has flavorful creatures by a lot, ALL PEOPLE TALKING BAD ABOUT THEM just because “they are not competitive” now you talk bad about a good card just because….is good but not grows with counters +1/+1? xDDDDD is technically** a 4 mana 6/6 so IT GROWS if you cast it from the graveyard. Not with counters but in cmc efficient.

      • Love-Sensei

        I have no problem with low power level cards, it makes limited a lot more fun and strategic. This is about card design, and how they couldn’t think of anything for their obligatory 6 cmc 6/6 trampler so they just slapped the Hydra creature type onto it. Obviously I don’t know what the circumstances were, but it certainly feels that way when I look at this card.

        • Kaiser

          Phyrexian Hydra was another that dont get counters but gain “-” counters. Also the art have less heads than stats. So is not the first one that have a not common hydra design. I like the way that they put the “grow” mechanic in this one cause not use counter at all but if you played this correctly (embalm in early turns) for sure feels like a hydra.

          • Love-Sensei

            Definitely not the first, and probably not the last. I still think they should be a little more faithful to the world that they’ve built, it’s what got me into MtG in the first place. I’d also like to point out that ‘Hydra’ is an iconic creature type associated with Green, similar to Angels for White and Dragons for Red. With that in mind, why did this have to be a Hydra? If all you had was the card text, could you identify the card as a Hydra? It could be any other creature and not make any difference, which is why I don’t like the card.

          • Kaiser

            you see the art right? XD is a giant snake-monster with 5 heads that face a warrior in mythic combat to dead. That is very hydra to me.

          • Love-Sensei

            I said if you only had the card text. It’s a Hydra because WotC wants it to be a Hydra. So they gave it a Hydra name, a Hydra creature type, and Hydra art. But it doesn’t follow any of the rules that they have made for Hydra in MtG, which makes me think they really didn’t think too hard about the design of the card.

          • Kaiser

            oh but it fix. If you read the article about how they design amonkhet color pie you will notice why there is a lot of green creatures with good stats but downsides. Green isnt about green in this set but about “green splash black” the creatures are more black oriented but still feels green. So this is basically what a black hydra need to be. A big creature that rewards you for playing early like a zombie. In early game this feels like a hydra, in late no. You are force to play this from your graveyard. Same apply with all other green cards of amonkhet 4/4 for 2 mana that need to “sac” a creature to come as a 4/4 etc etc…

            The rules in early amonkhet design were “green isnt about harvest but about the nature law” big creatures are big because they do something bad to others or to themself. That is amonkhet green.

          • Love-Sensei

            Then why not have it use -1/-1 counters in some way, like Phyrexian Hydra? -1/-1 counters are a theme in Amonkhet, closely related to the color Black. If this card is meant to represent Black in some way, don’t you think they missed a big opportunity to make a more interesting card?

          • Kaiser

            That is a point. But i supposed they choose not to do it cause this have embalm. So much text and token interaction happened in just one card. My guest is “this have nothing to do with counters because have embalm” and yes you can try to fix the design but actually have sense not to make a mix of 2 mechanics in one card, it can happen but not in this card.

          • Love-Sensei

            I personally don’t see a problem with having two mechanics on one card since it is Rare, but I see your point. Also, I don’t think they need to fix the mechanics of the card, I think a relatively under-statted card with a cheap embalm cost is good design. But, again, why is it a Hydra of all things?

          • Kaiser

            This discussion have not end. This is a hydra (for me) cause this in essence still grows in some way. They probaly want to put a Hydra cause the green god is a snake, also hydra zombie is cool. Probably the wurms would be a lot worse than this unleast why get a mythic zombien wurm and i dont think that woul happened. So you need to make a hydra “nature law” oriented but you choose to put embalm in the text. Now you need to do that BUT make the less complex possible. So they choose to make a big mana efficient zombie instead of a mana sink creature. Still works as a Hydra.

            That is my point of view about the card, you have the yours but none of them changes the fact that this serve has a hydra even if we dont like how is the “hydra” essence implement and the ausence of counter matters effect. Have a nice day bro and sorry is this card not make you happy.

          • Love-Sensei

            If the design thought process really went that way, then I can’t say its completely unreasonable. I still think -1/-1 counters is a lot more thematically relevant than embalm; it’s too bad you disagree with me, players have a lot more influence on cards than they think. Obviously there’s no way to change this card now, but if enough people expressed similar opinions then maybe they’ll keep it in mind for the next Hydra they print.

          • Kaiser

            i ensure you one think. We will not have a lot of green cards like this in a future cause this is just amonkhet HoD related color pie. This green cards are stupidly powerfull compared with most of the normal green cards in standard (atleast in single comparation, nothing to said about constructed play) cause they are just stomps cards for cheat cost, all of them. So the next Hydra they print probably would be more normal than this one.

    • Nyos

      I agree. Really excited to play this in Trostani EDH, but the flavor seems a bit lacking for a hydra. The fact that there is even a discussion about flavor surrounding such a powerful rare lends credence to your statement. Personally, I think it would have been great flavor-wise if the cmc/embalm cost were inverted, and it had started as a 5/5 with the static ability “creature tokens you control get +1/+1.” That way it got stronger after dying, without the need for +1/+1 counters. Still, all negativity aside, gotta love that art! Anyone know where I can find the token? It’s not showing up for me on here.

  • MTG420

    This series is being really good to Trostani :)

  • MTG fan

    Why are people so mad about a Hydra with only 5 heads

    • Kahai

      They want it to fit some perfect theme of what a hydra should be.

      • MTG fan

        Thanks for replying. Just wanted to know.

      • VBFabled

        Head shaming

    • Happy The Cat

      well, it’s a 6/6,and 5 isn’t 6, so maybe that’s why?
      or it could be that after all the way too undercosted to the point of being unfair creatures that a six mana 6/6 with trample and built in grave recursion is “bad”

      • MTG fan

        Thanks for replying.

    • NC

      Nerds are ridiculous.

  • Happy The Cat

    so the hydras get the snake subtype, even though generally even the snake looking ones are just hydras(Hooded Hydra being the only exception) but nagas couldn’t get naga snake or something to add them to green’s fun tribe.

    • Kahai

      So if we look back at the various snakes being made in the past:
      We had regular snek animals.
      Next we had the ‘Serpent’ twins, namely Serpent Assassin and Serpent Warrior, who looks like Naga.
      Then we had Kamigawa Snakes, who were never just snakes, but snake with additional subtyping.
      ~~~
      Personally, i like naga. They are physically different than regular snakes and kamigawa snake tribe, and i wish WotC would make the serpent twins into naga.

      • Happy The Cat

        but nagas are snakes! these are good creatures that could easly be played in a tribe that was only really represented on kamigawa but instead they are adding a new creature type that is the same as a creature type we already have. It would be like if they printed merfolk, but gave them the subtype fishman instead.

        • Kahai

          They’re distinctly different than snakes. They have a humanoid upper body, with human arms, but the lower torso and head of a snake. The kamigawa ‘snakes’ were four armed, 2 legged humanoids with snake heads.

          That’s what i’m saying.

          • Hedronal

            Humanoid with animal aspects is consistently given the animal type in Mtg, barring naga and viashino.

        • KÖLLEWOOD (MOBIL)

          Not in MTG… They are there no Snake Warrior Folk like the Oroshi or the Serpent Humanoid Folk…

  • MTG fan

    I’m leaving this page. Jeez, I just wanted a nice comment or two, not a rush of derogatory comments from clashing commenters.
    Edit: due to mistake in sentence

    • VBFabled

      Ad Hominem! The true American way!

      • Random Guy

        Yeah effing Americans never listen to their arguments amirite lol haha xd

        • Jacob Kodicovic

          Yeah! Insulting other nations for no reason! Woo!

          • Random Guy

            What other nations? America is the only nation amirite lol haha xd

          • NotMtG

            “Other Nations?” What are you some kinda commie!? Get outta my country!

  • VBFabled

    As an avid fan of hydras, this card is a bit of a disappointment. Hydras are typically real powerhouses that reward you for having a ton of mana, like Primordial Hydra, Hero’s Bane, Hydra Broodmother, Polukranos, etc. Whereas this guy is just a 6/6 trample that comes back once. But hey, it’s better than Phyrexian Hydra, so there’s that…

  • Magicstar909

    this is going to be broken for token commander…

    • VBFabled

      Probably not “broken.” There are too many more powerful things for token EDH like Wurmcoil Engine. It will be pretty sweet for my Trostani deck, though.

      • Magicstar909

        True, true. One I think will be powerful is the Angel of Sanctions

  • Peter Johnston

    better than roar of the wurm.

  • Phillip Reid

    Hmm, I have a better idea. Honored Hydra Creature- Snake Hydra Cost- G (X). Trample When it comes into play it gets X +1/+1 counters on it. Whenever it would be dealt damage remove a +1/+1 counter from Honored Hydra and put a -1/-1 counter onto all other creatures in play. Embalm GG(X).

    • Kaiser

      “remove a “+” counter and put “-” counter is the dame that said remove 2 “+” counters. Also GX? like the best green card ever printed for ramp? XD…

      • Jacob Kodicovic

        It says all other creatures.

        • Kaiser

          ooohh oh i miss read that part. More broken even xDD

    • Jacob Kodicovic

      Sadly, that couldn’t exist because this is a -1/-1 counter block, and Wizards is very cautious not to mix counters for limited purposes.

  • Kaiser

    Praise the zombie snake hydra

  • kmk888

    Step 1: Play self mill, play self discard. Or don’t, the card’s still good.
    Step 2: Profit??

  • Kaiser

    If you dont play this for 4 mana from your graveyard in turn 3-4 you are playing bad this card XD

  • Lord Gonti Of The Orzov Networ

    Zombie snake hydra. Almost as good as a zombie angel

  • Lord Gonti Of The Orzov Networ

    And the tolken looks beast.

  • Zombie

    What a pushed AF Embalm cost wtf.

  • Aarhg

    Oh my god, this is really solid.

  • Benjo Sian

    makes it tempting to play a green/black zombie deck :3

  • KÖLLEWOOD (MOBIL)

    All Hydras have Snakeheads … its like “Snake Naga” ^^

    • xSiNx SHADOW

      NO YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!

  • Ryan Ulrich

    Bomat Currier: discard my hand, play turn 4

  • Robert FakeLastName

    essentially vanilla 6/6 with a rare slot…

  • Kahai

    How am i a shill? At best i have misspoken.

    Please answer the question, how am i a shill?

    Ops, didn’t get the number of hydra right.

  • Kahai

    Settle down, dude. And this thing has 5 heads.

  • Tezzybros

    I think in almondcat, hydras don’t regen/ grow heads, they reanimate heads, so the heads may be half alive, half dead.
    Just a theory. I also understand that they are weening away from order. Hydras should grow heads, and should focus on some sense of strong tribal in the sets. I’m confused about the jackals being jund. It makes me sad and angry that back in the day we had lorwynn, all very ordered and well-structured. Then came shadowmoor and it screwed the concept of tribal. Hydras should be grow able, and jackals should be leaning off of exert and into cycle trigger, being either only rakdos-y or at least grixis. Sorry for this rant, but callum, your not alone in set constructions frustrations. Go back to order Wizards! New players? Learn order. Learn that even MTG has restrictions/ limitations that all MUST abide by.

  • MTG fan

    Yeah, but it doesn’t have a single head. There is no way this is a dragon. Also, calling me a fool is quite rude. What I did I do to you?
    Edit: this doesn’t have wings like a dragon either.

  • Love-Sensei

    Those all have variable power/toughness, so should be considered X/X Hydra.

  • Alexander Malinin (Cfyz)

    Actually, there have been six hydras since Theros. Besides those three you’ve mentioned, there is an X/X Genesis Hydra from M15, a Managorger Hydra from ORI which was the core of the Hardened Scales deck and grows like crazy, and an Oran-Rief Hydra from BFZ which grows on Landfall.

  • Kahai

    I’m clearly wrong and you are all right, WotC has done use wrong and we should riot.

    This was an examination of the various recent hydra, which didn’t all follow this arbitrarily made up rules on what a hydra is supposed to be.

  • Love-Sensei

    I don’t think having a 0/0 body can be considered the ‘main theme’, as it only applies to 17 of the 34 Hydra that have been printed (according to a quick search on Gatherer). However, the theme of variable P/T can be seen on 31 of the 34 Hydra. This usually involves some sort of +1/+1 counter interaction, but the exceptions still apply with some creative accounting (-1/-1 counters for Phyrexian Hydra, */* for Ulvenwald Hydra, etc.). This card simply does not behave like a Hydra in the slightest.

  • Love-Sensei

    We are customers, and it is within our rights to express our dissatisfaction and criticisms when the product doesn’t meet our expectations. No need for riots, we aren’t animals.

  • Michael Pepin

    That’s what I’m talking about. It’s just a 6/6 with trample

  • MTG fan

    Oh. I thought those were arms! Nice catch!
    Edit: I’m looking at these with my phone and don’t usually zoom in on the art.

  • Hedronal

    So a non-guaranteed tendency got an exception. It’s not like this would be the last hydra in Mtg.

  • Love-Sensei

    It’s not the first exception, and it probably won’t be the last. I’m not ready to excuse the designers based on that premise though.

  • Hedronal

    They don’t need excusing, there’s nothing to excuse them from.