• Jek

    Simba…

  • Erik López Barcelar

    So, a slower Hero’s Downfall but with a bit of an extra to make sure they are dead for good. One of the best Aftermath cards theyve leaked so far imo.

    • God Enel

      Considering this is sorcery speed and you’ll hardly have 7 manas lying around to immediately remove the card from the graveyard, it will almost never stop embalm creatures or Scrapheap Scrounger from being replayed, which would be one of the only uses of this effect.

      • Giby86 .

        That would be a bit too much to ask to a single card, though, wouldn’t it? See it like this: you kill something that needs to die, and from that point onward in the game they know that if they leave a Scrounger or an embalm creature in their graveyard and allow you to untap, they’ll lose it. Not a bad deal, considering that the top part of the card is quite good.

        • God Enel

          We’ve had 1 mana “exile taret creature” before, this card is just weak and too slow to matter. Sure they’re not gonna reprint Path to Exile, but at least they could make this card instant speed so that you can exile the creature on your turn, and make the aftermath cost cheaper.

          • Hedronal

            Please no strictly better Hero’s Downfall.

          • God Enel

            Why not? Hero’s Downfall is not that great to begin with, 3 mana removal is only played because there’s nothing decent. Still, they could at least have reprinted Hero’s Downfall instead of this split card.

          • Hedronal

            Three mana just killing anything short of a god at instant speed, with upside? Sounds like one card that would get way too everywhere in standard. There’s been too much of that recently.

          • God Enel

            Just like Gideon and Vehicles, and I don’t see wizards doing anything to stop them.

          • Hedronal

            So the solution is another one? Albeit this time one that would break anything instead of trying to make something.

          • Giby86 .

            So a strictly better Hero’s Downfall. You know they’re not going to do that, come on.

      • Erik López Barcelar

        I was thinking about those “return from graveyard” instant and sorcery cards rather than embalm, I mean, not always your oponent is gonna get back that card inmediately, so you could actually wait for your next turn to exile it if really wanted to do so. But yeah you got a point, 7 mana is too much, and that sorcery type doesnt help at all. Still, imo its better than most aftermaths cards, although that doesnt make it a particularly good one.

  • Kahai

    ew….

  • Alucard

    This is basically a better ruinous path. Especially since ruinous path rotates out in 6 months.

    • Pier-Luc Tremblay

      Depend if you planned using the Awaken part of Ruinous Path. I’ve built a deck once around awaken, but it was jeskai colors, to use Halimar tide caller for recursion and noyan dar.

      • Alucard

        Well i didn’t really compare it regard’s to the awaken part. Which in standard 3 mana sorc speed creature/plansewalker removal is very relevant. This is just better than ruinous path because having a second ability to use later from the grave is much more flexible.

    • Depends, I think. In a slower, control/ramp kind of deck (which is the kind that will be using a card like this rather than just Fatal Push) the Awaken ability is valuable for applying late-game pressure, pr even as a finisher. The fact that you can use this in the early game and get the (smaller) benefit later on, though (rather than having to save the whole spell to get the creature bonus), may give it the edge. But we’ll see.

  • Julien Benoit

    Just reprint Heroe’s Downfall WOTC. Just do it!

    • Frekazoid

      let’s bet in a beer that it comes next set. Hope never dies. :D

    • God Enel

      Current Wizards, printing good removal? Insanity!

  • Víctor Navarro Alcaraz

    Is Return really that powerful it has to cost 3B? Jeez

    • Cthulhooo

      hey, it’s a ruinous path that later enables you to exile scrounger from graveyard when you don’t have much to do with your mana and you get a free zombie. Maybe not amazing but still neat.

      • Dylan Pillars

        4 mana at sorcery speed that they can respond to by getting their scrounger out at instant speed. Also, a nerfed Ruinous Path probably won’t see much play seeing as Ruinous Path only saw play as a 2-of in BG midrange/control decks.

        • Cthulhooo

          Ruinous path rotates in 6 months so it’s a reasonable replacement I guess.

    • MrAptronym

      Nope, but it comes stapled to Never, which is a pretty decent removal spell. It can be pretty bad when it doesn’t cost a card.

  • Teddy Gillespie

    Shamble back (only hits creatures) does that effect for (b). Return is sooooooooo bad

    • MrAptronym

      Doesn’t need to be great when it is basically stapled to a decent card.

      • Jay Kilian

        Yeah, it’s an expensive bonus. Shambleback also gives you 2 life. They could have tossed that in or made it 2B and it would have been more reasonable. It’s one of the better Aftermath cards as “Never” is solid (and necessary)

  • NC

    Cool card, still need another color to stop Copycat.

  • Happy The Cat

    so a nerfed downfall but with gravehate stapled to it, will see play just for the downfall but gravehate isn’t useless for this set.

    • Random Guy

      deleted

  • Julna Buras

    Considering the rest of the set and its graveyard interactions, I like this a lot more than Ruinous Path.

  • kmk888

    It’s not like you awaken Ruinous Path very often. Consider instead that you get to put a good (if sorcery speed) removal spell into your deck and have a source of incidental graveyard hate game 1 in the situations you most need it.

  • Vizzerdrix

    only issue i have with this card is paying 4 to exile a card and make a 2/2. there are a lot of cards that’ll do the same for 1 mana i dont see why you this is 4 mana, maybe a 3/3 flyer or a 4/4 not for a 2/2 though it at least has a relevant tribe

    • Hedronal

      It’s 4 mana because it’s a bonus attached to a different card.

      • Mov

        It’s an effect that’s in no way worth the mana cost attached to a card that is a strictly worse version of a card that already barely sees standard play.

        It’s another example of WOTC being too afraid to make answers with reasonable power. If they were going to make the back side so useless they should have just made the front side heros downfall.

        • Hedronal

          Or maybe they’re fine with a spell that already kills anything that black mana gets to kill in Mtg, which side 1 is. Also, this and Ruinous Path each do something the other doesn’t, so their comparison isn’t *strictly* better on either side.

          • Mov

            Yeah I was exaggerating in calling it strictly worse than ruinous path, but i still do think path is better than this. The second spell is too expensive for the effect – the 2 2 is largely irrelevant by the time you have the excess mana to use it, so why not just give us a back side of exile target card in graveyard for b without the zombie?

            Side 1 is largely useless because it’s sorcery speed in an environment where we need to answer threats at instant speed thanks to vehicles and combo.

          • Hedronal

            I agree that path is generally better, but only based on how often awaken matters, which also won’t save you from a HoK or something.

            It’s not like this will be the only black removal, I expect this is meant to handle most any situation sorcery speed removal can, while something else fits elsewhere.

    • Benjo Sian

      you could target it on your opponents lethal creatures in the graveyard making it also graveyard hate

  • Shagoth

    Never play // return

  • Derek Niles

    Can the too halves have different rarity please?

  • fancyfox

    should have been Never gonna // Give you up

    • Doesn’t work with the naming scheme.

      • KÖLLEWOOD (MOBIL)

        Never gonna TO give you up

        • Gonna is a shortened version of going to. So gonna to doesn’t make grammatical sense and doesn’t fit the scheme.

          • KÖLLEWOOD (MOBIL)

            Ok
            “Never going” TO “give you up”

  • ConDucktor Whirl Crate God

    Love Never. But Return is absolute garbage.