• Derek Mullins

    So, Athreos for artifacts in red?

    • Zombie

      So by that comparison, it will be horrendously overhyped, do nothing, fall flat on its face, then almost never be played even in Commander?

      • Derek Mullins

        Most likely. I enjoyed Athreos in a few of my decks, though.

        • Zombie

          I love the card, but unfortunately I can not make bad cards good through sheer force of will.

  • David S. McCrae

    This could get silly if your opponent is unprepared for it.

    REALLY silly.

  • Edwin Marín Castro

    I wish this was an artifact, but enchantment is OK I guess?

  • DJ Pad

    So…similar to Athreos, only can’t become a 5/4 indestructible creature…seems bad.

    • Welf Mattern

      So… similar to Athreos, only in a color where dealing damage is easier supported, it dodges creature removal entirely, is less greedy, works with artifacts instead of creatures, and is not legendary, so you can slam multiples… seems good?

      • DJ Pad

        If you have multiple “do-nothing” enchantments in your hand, you’re probably losing. Your opponent gets to chppse whether or not they want to take damage.

        • Happy The Cat

          but in choosing to not take damage they are giving you back a card giving them more value from their cards. like if you trade a creature for a vehicle all of a sudden that becomes bad for you, as you just lost a creature but they just put their’s back in their hand or if they crack a spellbomb they get to draw a card and keep the spellbomb for no loss. how many times are you willingly going to let my Cogworker’s Puzzleknot throw out chumps before letting me bolt you? people always say that Punisher cards are bad simply because they let your opponent control them, but often times Punisher cards will do exactly what you want them to do as long as you play them right.

  • Typhuzuzu13

    Two mana for one servo,
    Pay two and sac it.
    Deals three damage OR gives you another one
    Repeat

    • Xeonar

      Non-Token Artifacts Only, won’t work with servos

      • Marco Battisti

        But with the servo maker at 2 mana it does

        • Pandancules

          so like puzzleknots? Maybe Cogworker’s? If you have a reckless fireweaver out too you could be looking at some value. Maybe work your way into a Westvale Abbey?

          I would actually like this for bringing back Filligree Familiars and Bomat Couriers

          • Marco Battisti

            Not a bad idea, and sounds budget enough to try, maybe they’ll spoil something to support this idea.
            The deck could be multicolor, since you have enough energy and life with green puzzleknot for the aether hubs to use all the colors of the artifacts -red apart which i don’t like much-. Nice type of combo, i’d give it a try just to see what happens

      • typhuzuzu13

        I was talking about the puzzleknots. Either they take three damage and the puzzleknot gained way too much value, or it goes back in your hand and the process repeats. Combined with the servo/thopter synergy cards I can see some interesting boros decks with this.

        There’s also the red puzzleknot which (rightly so) doesn’t see play- but combine with the white puzzleknot and I can see some interesting decks.

  • MTG fan

    Story Spotlight #2. I wonder what one is?

  • Poro Vlad

    Daretti says TY

    • DJ Pad

      Daretti has much better cards to play than this…

    • Zombie

      Daretti and Breya already have Vicious Shadows. They dont want a cheaper, worse version.

      • Shagoth

        Um, I’ve never heard of Daretti using vicious shadows. It also doesn’t synergies very well with Daretti, you’re not sacrificing creatures THAT much in proportion to the strategy.

        I don’t think this card is very good in Daretti, though. Feels like a much worse mono red Athreos.

        • Zombie

          You’ve never heard of Vicious Shadows in Daretti?

          Really?

          You’ve never heard of a Scrap Mastery combo kill where you sacrifice all of your artifact creatures with a sac outlet, bomb a player with Vicious Shadows, then Scrap Mastery them all back?

          You’ve never heard of Vicious Shadows being abused with Daretti’s -2, Trash for Treasure, or Goblin Welder to dome an opponent every single time you kill an artifact creature to bring another artifact back?

          As someone who’s played Daretti almost exclusively since his release in EDH leagues/tournaments, basically stopping at Breya’s release, I’m really confused as to why you’ve never run into a Daretti deck that runs one of the single best spells Daretti could ever use to close games.

          • RisuWarwick

            So, i just checked EDHREC, and vicious shadows doesnt pop up at all and they have 556 daretti decks on file.things that work for one casual group dont work in them all.

          • Zombie

            EDHREC doesn’t have Vicious Shadows in their Breya lists either, yet it’s one of most highly recommended cards for Breya decks from top EDH content producers, especially from people like The Command Zone.

            Vicious Shadows also single handedly wins the Breya deck the game in TCZ’s video of the 4 color combos facing off.

            Keep in mind that EDHREC is an aggregation of random builds that people make. It shows you averages, not what’s best.

            Most of the people that play EDH – DO NOT PLAY OPTIMIZED BUILDS.

            That may come as a shock to you, I know.

            EDHREC also shows that most of the Breya and Daretti decks that they’re using for their information are still using cards mostly from the precon build. This only further proves that the builds they’re analyzing are not optimized deck builds.

          • Dave

            Your condescension kinda diminishes the worth of your comment.

          • Zombie

            It shouldn’t. Just because I’m a condescending d*ck shouldn’t have any effect on the actual argument itself.

            If you can’t counter an argument, don’t respond. Attacking the other party’s character isn’t an argument. It’s a fallacy and it holds no value.

            Don’t be like one of those liberal crybabies on Twitter.

          • mehngo

            You’re right. It just means you’re a condescending d*ck. Who knew you could inform people without sounding like a prick, right? The only thing it accomplishes is making people not want to talk to you. I don’t understand the appeal.

          • Shagoth

            Liberal Crybabies =//= A polite person.
            So if you want a counter argument, fallacy free without picking at character, I got one. It sounded like that you were saying Vicious Shadows is a common theme in Daretti decks, and then people looked it up online and it didn’t appear to be common. Not saying it isn’t effective or fun, but not super common.

          • Skycloud1518

            With the sheer amount of different EDH deck and commander combos, it should not be surprising that someone has not heard of one.

          • Shagoth

            Huh, interesting. Never heard of the combo until now.

          • Zombie

            Literally any red source like Vicious Shadows that deals direct damage (Pia’s Revolution can technically do 0 if your opponent feels like it – this is why most Punisher mechanic cards are trash) is abusable by Daretti decks and Breya decks.

      • mehngo

        It’s not really worse, they’re meant to serve different purposes. I can see this being pretty decent.

  • Pandancules

    Anyone know any cards that set the precedent on how multiples of this effect would work?

    • Derek Mullins

      Each one should trigger separately, but I’m not sure if it still resolves if it’s brought back before the others resolve.

    • They have to pay for each copy.

    • mehngo

      Kind of similar to how if you chose the mode “Counter target spell unless it’s controller pays (3)” on Mystic Confluence multiple times, they pay 3 mana for each mode otherwise it’s countered.

  • Shagoth

    From a flavor perspective, I could have seen this as a mythic or something.

    Also I realized evil synergy with Archbond Ravager in vintage shops or lotus petal. Probably not going to be a thing, but a man can dream.

  • That Guy

    I feel like people are underrating this card. The fact that this is only cmc 3 is huge. It’s just such a value engine. And comparing it to athreos isn’t fair because they’re in different colors and are for different card types. In limited it’s bonkers with puzzleknots. In standard it’s also nuts for similiar reasons.
    I plan to make a modern deck with this using it similiarly to second sunrise except it wont be taking a 20 minute turn. It’ll have spellbombs, chromatic star/sphere, conjurer’s bauble, but also krark-clan ironworks, mishra’s bauble, terrarion, and etherium sculptor. And maybe auriok salvagers, and idyllic tutor or something.

    • TJ

      You realize, it functions identically to Athreos, just for artifacts. The Campari son is more than reasonable. The biggest difference so far, there isn’t anything standard legal to be able to search like deicide, which is the card the killed the athreos hype.

      • That Guy

        I understand that it functions the same as athreos. I was referring to the people who said: It’s a worse athreos for artifacts.
        Also, technically there is lost legacy for this. Sure it’s not quite the same but it’s something.

        • TJ

          To a point though they are right. For three manayou could have an indestructible enchantment that can become
          A creature or just an enchantment. How ever if the don’t put a surgical extraction or deicide type card into the format, this will wind up seeing more play than Athreos.

  • Robert FakeLastName

    this could be stellar in eggs.

    • Zombie

      Nope.

      Your opponent will just let you recur things until your combo would break and take 3 damage to make you lose the game.

      Pia’s Revolution is just another “Punisher” mechanic card that doesn’t pass the Vexing Devil test.

      • Robert FakeLastName

        if the opponent lets you combo then how will you loose? wont you just drown them in card advantage? not letting you get one artifact back after all that should be irrelevant.

        • Zombie

          Eggs only runs one win condition that it tries to infinitely recur and blow up.

          If you’re familiar with the mechanics of the Eggs deck, you can just decide to take 3 damage whenever their combo would break if they don’t recur something and then they pass the turn and you beat their face in mercilessly.

          “Eggs” breaking its own combo isn’t exactly unheard of either, anyway. There was even an iconic game during the match between Stanislav Cifka and Yuuya Watanabe during the Finals of Pro Tour Return to Ravnica, the serious debut of Eggs and why it got cards banned from Modern, and in that game Stanislav’s own combo just broke itself and he outright lost himself the game of that match.

          It’s situations like that where Pia’s Revolution can cause your combo to break far more often than it normally would. And in a deck that only exists because of manufactured consistency, a newfound lack of that consistency would spell nothing but doom and demise for the Eggs archetype.

          Besides, 3 damage is only 1 more than the Pyrite Spellbomb exploding anyway, so it’s not that different or any more detrimental, really.

          The point is: giving your opponent the choice over what your cards do will never work for you.

          I can’t believe I have to go over this time and time again when it comes to the “Punisher” mechanic. Giving your opponent effective control over your cards means you never get the option you want.

          This is why I refer to the “Vexing Devil Test”. Vexing Devil is the prime example of a Punisher card that actually works, because both options that your opponent has to choose are negative for them.

          Either they choose to take 4 damage for R, or you get a 4/3 for R that they have to immediately answer or it will kill them in a few turns. Both of those options are equally valuable to the player playing Vexing Devil (in the decks you’re playing Vexing Devil), and that makes it the best goal for a Punisher mechanic card in Magic. Period.

          Cards like Pia’s Revolution got it half right, but it has the same issue that Athreos had and it’s why Athreos never really became the Standard-dominating powerhouse everyone, including myself, thought it would end up as. Athreos isn’t even that good of a Commander, as well.

          Pia’s Revolution basically says “recur everything that isn’t worth taking 3 damage for, and you’re never getting anything valuable back because it turned into a one-time Lava Spike”.

          And when your opponent is the one deciding that, the card becomes seriously unplayable. On top of doing nothing on its own for 2R.

          Not to mention, there’s always the question, when it comes to new cards, of: “What are you taking out of that prexisting deck to replace with X new cards?”

          What would you be removing from Eggs to support Pia’s Revolution, a card that costs 3 mana that does literally nothing on its own? Why would you introduce a new card into a build that has to be so optimized because of bannings that it can barely even run one win condition?

          • Robert FakeLastName

            I thought most of the eggs used had cantriping effects? certainly that has some effect especially if you draw another egg. Also, Athreos deals with creatures and Pia’s Revolution deals with artifacts. That alone is enough to better facilitate an engine/kill con. why not combine it with spell bomb and deal 5 damage per cycle? To me this reads deal 3 damage every time an artifact hits the graveyard or win. I do think that with cantriping artifacts this is some thing that must reliably be paid for each time or else there is no end to the absurdity about to unfold. It might be a different breed of eggs, but I really do think this is a much different beast than athreos.

          • Zombie

            Because that’s not how it works. Your opponent chooses whether or not they take the 3 damage.

            If you’re not presenting lethal, they have no reason to take 3 damage.

            My point is that Pia’s Revolution makes Eggs operate pretty much how it would pre-ban, with a single exception: Your opponent now has the option to take 3 damage to break your chain and effectively end your combo in its tracks.

            Combining this with Egg’s lack of additional Faith’s Reward-esque recursion, Pia’s Revolution just simply isn’t enough to make Eggs anything more than the gimmick it currently is.

            If you’re looking for an artifact-based combo deck in Modern, you’re far better off building a Madcap Experiment deck or shelling out the $1000 for Affinity.

          • Robert FakeLastName

            and if they don’t pay you get so much value and win with another win con like lab maniac. or an x spell for leathal.

          • Zombie

            If they aren’t paying, it’s just old Eggs until they manually break your recursions by paying 3 life and you’re ruined.

            This isn’t a hard concept to grasp.

          • Robert FakeLastName

            I am not talking about solely relying on this to recur things from my graveyard. It will have many of the ordinary methods to recur artifacts but it will also have this. The primary reason i say they will need to pay life constantly is that i will be using the cantriping mana producing eggs to draw into to more of the same as per normal eggs. If at any point they fail to pay life i will be given a significant advantage and will likely run away with the game and win. The reason why i think this is good is because you can use the same single artifact to draw and filter mana. you repeat it till they pay and then you just play another one and use that till they pay. Most of the normal recursion from eggs helps out tremendously. I think that this has a super good upside on either end of the spectrum and is more resilient than you think.

          • Skycloud1518

            Your opponent must have the card out, and if they do they take 3 damage. They do not get to ‘decide’ anything. I made the same mistake at prerelease, and played the entire time believing that my opponent had the choice of letting it go to my graveyard lol.

            My standard deck is running combos of Pia’s Revolution, implement of combustion, ornithopter, and implement of ferocity (possibly, but not necessarily, Foundry Inspector)

          • james hegge

            question then
            t1 mountain + ornithopter + implement of combustion
            t2 mountain + ravenous intruder
            t3 mountian + pia’s revelution
            t4 mountian (foundry inspector in hand/rush of adrenaline/molten nursery)
            now are you going to let me infinite cycle that ornithopter or take 3 damage.
            pretty sure the answer is take 3 damage, given that any of those three in hand will lead to you losing if you don’t. i will give that this is technically a god hand to do this on turn 3 but turn 5 or 6 probably a real possibility, in the right deck pia’s does pass the vexing devil test at least in my opinion.
            given that you had this conversation with Robert almost a month ago, it wouldn’t surprise me if your opinion on the card has changed with the other cards that have been spoiled.

          • Zombie

            Taking 3 damage to stop an infinite chain is the entire reason Pia’s Revolution is a garbage engine. 3 damage is less than dying.

            Also, that combo is turned off by killing Revolution OR Intruder, making it horrifically fragile.

          • james hegge

            sure kill either one of them, mind you, you have 3 mana available only if you didn’t cast anything for this case, few turns later and yeah you have the mana but I probably have a copy so mute point cycle goes on at that point, on a side note I don’t see much enchantment hate sideboards or mainboard in decks near me, so i’m not sure it’s very common. artifact hate that includes enchantment are all 4 or more mana if i’m not mistaken, so not usable until turn 4 opponents play if i took play, and intruder is the much bigger threat given destroying revelution just changes the deck style to normal red bash face in with creature.
            and your underestimating 3 damage I mean yeah once a turn not too threatening, but 3 or 4 times in a turn is no longer trivial damage + intruder isn’t a small at that point either so adrenaline rush swing for lethal .i’d give you it isn’t the fastest setup.
            Edit: and now that i’ve seen the new spoilers i’m probably going back to the r/b variant of the deck I started with, so yes kill intruder i have two more like it potentially, destroy revolution okay i bash face with creatures.
            edit 2: i don’t intend for this to be an eggs deck, i don’t think you thought that but just making sure.

  • Bostorket

    Athreos got his hands on a Popular Mechanics and things just started to snowball.

  • Happy The Cat

    cool card. standard eggs might be a thing now. dont know if this is good enough for modern eggs though.

    • Shagoth

      I think this has more potential in Legacy then Modern. Modern has a bauble. Legacy has a couple of sacrificial mana rocks that cost no mana. Either your opponent lets you kill them, or you get infinite mana. Consistent three mana infinite combo that can fit into another deck. IDK which one but it’s 2-3 cards.

      • Happy The Cat

        well, the biggest reason this wont make it into modern eggs is they already have pyrite spellbomb as their kill condition as they just bring it back again and again.if this does see play outside of standard or casual formats like commander it will be in a super modified version of eggs that relies on cracking draw effects and not so much of the reloading combo normal eggs has

        • Shagoth

          Yeah, true.

    • Happy The Cat

      also, Scrap Trawler deserves a mention on this card. pretty sure they work together a bit and can basically confirm your opponent letting you reload any dying artifact.

  • Picklechu

    Does anyone think this card could be good in a marionette master deck

  • Jonathan McClain

    So if you have a sacrifice outlet, a 0 cost artifact could you just tap and sac then replay for improvise?

    • Shagoth

      Yeah.
      Also Lotus Petal+this tough to remove, two card combo, infinite mana.