• Raimund Keller

    I´d really like to see that token :). I do not think that he makes for a good voltron commander due to him costing 5 Mana

    • Kahai

      For the embalm? HE costs 2 to cast.

    • eltratzo

      what will probably hold him back from voltronning is the lack of hexproof. builtin protection is kinda important for voltron aproaches as having a resilient creature and buffing it with interchangeable pants is generally more consistent than having an elusive creature and buffing it with protective and boosting stuff

  • James O’Niel

    Phyrexian Processor and this guy will be sweet.

  • Aurore

    Question: Can this guy and his token exist at the same time? I think no, but I’m not positive since Embalm changes details about him.

    • Brian Knarr

      I don’t think so. They will have the same name, so the legend rule will kick in.

    • Tolle

      No. They have the same name. That is all the legend rules care about.

  • Edward

    I was hoping we would get a Legendary embalm creature for commander and this is perfect. You use it to get through with a token and when he dies he can give himself +1/+1 and unblockable. Seems like an interesting

    • Aurore

      I’d prefer Bant colors for better synergy with Selesnya tokens, but I’ll see what the green embalm cards look like.

      • Edward

        That is assuming there is green embalm cards. Embalm doesn’t seem like it would fit in green unless maybe the card was White and Green but even then I am not sure it would fit green.

        • Aurore

          Maro said embalm is primary in U/W, but has cards in every color but Black.

    • Together Alone

      Does his token dealing damage count as commander damage?? My guess would be no but idk.

      • Edward

        No the actual commander has to deal damage for commander damage. If it did count as commander damage though this would be one of the best voltron commanders ever as it can make itself unblockable once it is a token

  • Tolle

    Another blue white aggro commander. -_- For a color combination supposedly about control we get way too many of these.

    • Giby86 .

      Which is perfect. Azorius has all the control tools (and the control generals) it needs from here to the end of time, it’s good that we’re getting something different. Think of Boros, do we really need another WR aggro general? Give me Boros control please.

      • Tolle

        A. while I am the first person to agree red white needs more variety in commanders you are missing the point.
        B. The issue with your argument is blue white has plenty of control finishers outside of a commander. It doesn’t need another for commander.
        C. You bring up boros am doing how it doesn’t have a lot of variety. Here is the thing, more than 2/3s of blue white commanders are agro/voltron based. That number increases dramatically if you look at commanders from the most recent sets (at least as far back as theros) and those that see any play. Check EDHrec to see what I mean.

        So in conclusion blue white had the voltron/Agro commanders it needs. What we don’t have/what we need are utility commanders for the colors.

        • Giby86 .

          No, I agree, I mean, Azorius has a lot of aggressive generals. I don’t know about 2/3, but still, I get your point. But you said it yourself, Azorius IS about control, so it makes sense to support other strategies more, because you don’t need to dig deep to find a good control general for these colors. And even geneals which are absolutely aggro-oriented can be easily bent to a control strategy in Azorius. Daxos, Medomai, Bruna, Ojutai, Geist…
          This is why I was comparing it to Boros: even if they print a control-style Boros general, the cards you have to work with are heavily oriented towards aggro.

          • Tolle

            It is 2/3s. Check EDH reck if you don’t believe me. All we really have for good, playable, utility commanders are grand arbiter and Hanna, ship’s navigator. But we have a much longer list of agro commanders. So agro is well supported but control isn’t, at least not at the commander level.

          • Giby86 .

            Now that’s a bit too far. Brago, Augustin, Ephara, Hanna, Wwafa Hazid, Isperia, Lavinia are all awesome control generals. Bruna, Noyan Dar, Ojutai, Medomai can all very well be control powerhouses as well.

          • Tolle

            Only Hanna and Augustine are the good utility commanders we have. Wwafa sucks, and the rest are either directly tied to creatures like ephara, directly tied to doing combat damage or swinging like brago which causes a focus on voltron, or is such a large body it also causes a voltron strategy like isparia.

            Yeah they are seen in control strategies but that is because that is what blue white non-legends do. But the fact of the matter is we have way more agro styled generals than we do utility styled.

          • Giby86 .

            No, no, wait a second now. Gwafa Hazid does not suck, he’s one of the most fun politically oriented Azorius generals. He’s op? No. He’s strong? Probably not. But that’s beside the point. Also, Brago Voltron? What? You seem confused on the terminology. Control means controlling the board, the hands and/or the stack, generating card/board advantage and eventually winning in the late game, it has nothing to do with whether or not you attack, you play creatures or you have a large body. Brago *controls the board* by swinging. Ephara *generates card advantage* by playing creatures. Isperia *scares off attackers* with its body and its ability. Those three are the absolute epitome of Azorius control.

          • Tolle

            Gwafa, according to EDHrec is the 11th most popular EDH commander with only 183 unique decks compared to ten times that number for brago. Also, he is a bad commander because it is so easy to remove those counters with flicker and sack/recursion strategies, both of which dominate EDH. But this topic is besides the point. He is still a very unpopular commander and still only the third utility creature you mentioned.

            I am well aware of the terms. And voltron is the method of winning with commander damage. And while brago may not win always with commander damage it is something the deck will often do because it is requried for the deck to function anyway.

            Ephara generates card advantage. But in the end you are doing that by generating creature. Making her a creature commander. She will probably run some elements of control as that is what is supported by UW non-legendary creatures. But not nearly so much as you would with the grand arbitor. But grand arbitor is in the minority of UW commanders.

          • Giby86 .

            Dude, who cares about how “unpopular” he is on EDHrec? Seriously, have you tried to build him? Play him? You’d have a blast. He’s really fun and makes it for extremely non-linear games.

            Then. Brago. There’s a difference between being a voltron (i.e. your strategy relies on killing people with your general) and killing people with your general. Sometimes Brago kills people by attacking, sure, but he’s not inherently voltron as, say, Uril, Skullbriar or Rafiq are. I have never seen a voltron built for Brago. I’d love to, actually.

            And Ephara. Again. Having creatures does not equal NOT being control. Ephara controls the game and generates card advantage with creatures. Which makes her…a control general. With creatures. Ephara doesn’t want to be aggressive, doesn’t use the combat phase aggressively. Ephara wants to drag the game long enough to overwhelm opponents with the sheer amount of card advantage it can generate, and eventually find a win condition and close it up. Which is, again, the definition of control.

          • Tolle

            EDHrec is a site that searches for decks across the internet to see how people are building them. It is a great way to view how people approach commanders and how many decks are made shows how many people are interested in playing him. The fact that he doesn’t do well there shows that most people would disagree with you and don’t think he’s fun.

            While Brago has other options besides being solely a voltron deck, that doesn’t mean his style doesn’t utilize that. A lot of brago decks run artifacts that give “can’t be blocked” which takes up from control cards. Just because a card isn’t as “obviously voltron” as others does not mean it isn’t still voltron.

            Okay. Just. No. Just because something gives you card advantage does not make it control. Card advantages is required in all tactics, but is just most important in control. So you can’t go and say “ephara is control because she gives you card advantage.” That logic doesn’t follow. The important thing to note is HOW she gives you card advantage. Creatures. You are suggesting running a creature filled deck, to maximize your card draw, and then what? Leave the creatures sitting there to do nothing? At that point you’d do better with card like brain storm or preordain. If you are going to have a lot of creatures, you are going to swing. The more you creatures you have the more you swing, the more you swing the more agro you are. Ephara’s strategy is all about creatures so she enables an agro strategy.

            Now, how about we look at the past few commanders in these colors printed. (Please note I am excluding reprints in this)
            This guy: Clearly agro based.
            Isahe, Ojutai dragon speaker: All he is is a massive beat stick.
            Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper: The closest thing to a utility control commander as he is based around spell slinger. But one that still empathizes an agro strategy of punching people in the face with big creatures.
            Both Oujatai: Generic dragon beat sticks, one which gives you some card advantage (which I have already said does not mean control) and one that taps a single creature.
            Ephara: Who’s creature heavy strategy DOES translate as agro.
            Daxos of Meletis: Pure voltron strategy with some really bad card advantage.

            That mean, for the past few years the closest thing we’ve gotten to a utility commander is Noyan Dar. And none of them really support a strategy where you don’t end up pissing someone off right away.

          • Giby86 .

            All I get from your comments is that I would love playing against you and exploiting your obvious lack of understanding of Magic. ^^
            Since you’re so enamored with EDHrec, let’s take a look at Ephara’s “signature cards”, shall we? Stonecloaker. Whitemane Lion. Voidmage Husher. Deputi of Acquittals. Restoration Angel. Nothing even RESEMBLING a beatdown setup. You’ve probably never played with or against Ephara, so let me tell you: if you think that Ephara wants to *swing* with her creatures, you’re in for a very harsh wake-up call. No: Ephara’s creatures emphatize her ability to generate board control and card advantage but they’re not really part of the winning strategy. The winning strategy of the USUAL Ephara deck is to get in control of the game, and only then, when the game is already over, seal the deal with whatever finisher you happen to play. Now you can play her aggressively, sure, but that’s the unusual way to play Ephara. Which I would encourage people to play, as I happen to love quirky decks and strategies, but that’s beside the point.
            And let’s do the same with Brago: Mulldrifter. Reflector Mage. Lavinia. Cloudblazer. Frickin’ STONEHORN DIGNITARY. Those are NOT aggressive cards! Those are cards that you play if you want to CONTROL THE GAME, which, again, is what the vast, vast majority of Brago decks want to do: avoid losing the game until you cannot lose anymore, and then find any finisher you happen to have to seal the deal. Is this finisher Brago himself? Sure, maybe, why not. But the finisher in a control deck is by far the least important aspect of it, because if you’re deploying your finisher you’ve already won the game, so at that point, using Brago or an army of thopters and myrs doesn’t matter. Attacking doesn’t mean being aggro.

          • Tolle

            And what I have learned from your comments is that you are completely incompetent at reasoned thought and can’t admit when you are wrong.

            I will give you some ground on ephara. But I have played against her. And while it doesn’t go with traditional red or green agro it doesn’t follow traditional control patterns either. And her win conditions are clearly agro.

            I do not give you any ground on brago. Yes. Brago has cards with strong etb effects because he’ll benefit those from his combat strategy to keep himself alive and strengthen his board. And winning with an army of tokens is an agro strategy… that is kind of the definition.

            The most important thing is the fact you completely ignored my last paragraph. You completely ignored Daxos, the oujatais and his speaker. All of which are flat out agro commanders and you cannot deny that. You said in response to my initial post “we need different strategies for UW” and then completely failed to acknowledge the fact we got several of them recently. Hell, the last UW legend was an agro commander.

          • Giby86 .

            Ephara & Brago: again. Winning using creatures to deliver the final blow does NOT equal being aggro. It’s a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING. Being aggro and being control means approaching the whole game in a different way. Do you plan to close the game as quickly as possible? Then you’re aggro, regardless of how many creatures you play. Do you plan to drag the match, controlling the board and staying alive until the end game, and then proceed to win with superior card advantage? Then you’re control! They are broad strategies, not mere deckbuilding guidelines. I don’t care if you’re playing 40 creatures…if your plan is “survive, control the board, create card advantage and eventually win” you’re control. And if your only creature is your commander but the rest is burn and pump spells, you’re aggro. This is the fundamental thing you’re failing to grasp. You can’t see the difference between a swarm of tokens of a Rhys deck, swinging as soon as possible and trying to win before getting out of gas and an army of myrs created by repeatedly blinking a battlesphere in a Brago deck. Those are DIFFERENT STRATEGIES, and I don’t get why you don’t understand it. I strongly suggest you go read some articles by Flores or MaRo. Start from the fundamentals.
            And I I don’t try to deny the last part because I largely agree with you. We could argue that both Ojutais give their best when used as finishers in control shells, but that’s irrelevant. My point was that since Azorius is already heavily geared towards control, it’s a good thing that we’re seeing Wizards pushing for alternative strategies.

          • Tolle

            I have little I can say on your first paragraph because it is all based on an assumption I have already refuted. “Card advantage =/= control.” All styles want card advantage, yes, control needs it more. But all styles want it. Why do you think red likes wheel of fortune so much? Refills its hand. But all of this is besides the point anyway, which I will go more into in my next paragraph.

            Here is the thing, look at all those commanders we have gotten, they are all either beat sticks, agro commanders, or quote “control finishers.” But you said yourself that control wins by locking the board down and the win condition is merely a formality. Your commander is your most important card, or at least, your most reliable. So why would you want your commander to fill the role of a formality. Yes, blue white decks tend towards control, I never denied that, quite the contrary. What I have said is that the commanders we get don’t support that. Yeah, the decks tend towards control because that is what blue white does, but the commanders don’t help with that. We don’t get utility creatures. Creatures that HELP you achieve that board lock. Creatures like Hanna or Grand Arbiter (in azorious) anymore. We get these “control finishers” and agro commanders. The closest thing we got to a utility commander was Noyan Dar, but even he is just taking advantage of a control strategy to make big creatures.

          • Giby86 .

            You refuted what you think I’ve said, but I actually haven’t. Please read my posts again. I’ve never said “card advantage=control”. I’ve detailed how control is a whole complex strategy, of which card advantage is an integral part, sure, but that’s not the whole picture. Once again: control is how approach the whole game, what you want to do in the early game and in the late game. As for card advantage, there’s a HUGE DIFFERENCE between how control does it, and how aggro does it. You said it yourself, the wheel effects that aggro decks need are to refill their hand. That’s absolutely the opposite of what a control deck wants: it wants to constantly be ahead of the aggressive opponent, in order to always have more answers than their threats. Which is exactly what Ephara does. Which is exactly what Brago does. They do help achieving board lock. If you think they don’t, you clearly have never played against any Ephara or Brago players who know what they’re doing.
            And let me say this again: thank goodness we’re not getting other oppressive, board-locky kind of generals in Azorius! This new one is unique, because there were zero legendary creatures in Azorius that have token synergies. Is it aggressive? Sure. Can it lead to a crazy cool combo deck? Most definitely. And it’s that more exciting precisely because it is in a color pair that does not play well with tokens at all. It is an interesting deckbuilding challenge, much more so than any other control general would be. And that’s what we need: interesting, weird, unique generals that demand to be built around in new ways.

          • Tolle

            I very much disagree. Your entire paragraph was predicated on that assumption. And am agro deck would love ephara’s ability. The only reason I bring up wheel is that is pretty much the best red has. But again, it doesn’t matter because it still doesn’t address my initial point.

            I am not upset this card exists. I am upset that we don’t get utility creatures in this color, ones that help control the board instead of helping with your win con, which I repeat, is something you said is just a formality in a control deck. Yes, we don’t need another oppressive commander, but we don’t need the card to be oppressive to be a fun, utility, commander. Look at Hanna. She isn’t oppressive. But that is the kind of card I want to see as an azorious commander but we don’t get cards like her anymore in these colors. We haven’t in years. So again, I don’t mind this card exists, but I am annoyed at how frequently we get cards like this without getting any utility creatures.

          • Giby86 .

            But we have Hanna. How many Azorius generals that play with tokens did we have? Exactly zero.

            Also: yes, of course an aggro deck would want to draw twice the cards every turn. If that’s your bar for what constitutes an “aggro” card, well…!

          • Tolle

            I am not saying I want Hanna 2.0. But I want a card like her. A pure utility commander that isn’t oppressive and fun to play. And isn’t a beat stick or “control finisher.” Instead a fun card that helps you achieve your end of control. But we don’t get that kind of card anymore. But they could print something like that but not being Hanna. And example. This could have been an azorious commander in the innistrad block. “Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery investigate. Whenever you sacrifice a clue scry 1.”

            Wow… it is like you completely forgot the first thing I said about her. She is completely based around creatures. The fact she draws you cards doesn’t mean she is a control commander. You said she is about generating card advantage so you can control the board. But she is about getting a board state, which her card draw helps to do, then punch people in the face with those creatures. Aka. Agro.

          • Giby86 .

            I’m sorry, if you believe that creatures = aggro I can’t really help at this point. I’ve explained, in detail, what “control” means as a philosophy and as a strategy, and yet you keep going back to “duh, creatures, duh, aggro, duh”. I mean, suit yourself, but I’d read some articles if I were you. You do have some extremely bad fundamental misunderstandings about this game and I would urge you to fix them. I have no more to say to you, this conversation is going nowhere. Read up, study up, learn, then come back to me when you’re ready.

          • Tolle

            I have read articles. But here is the thing. You keep ignoring the crucial parts of this discussion. I keep saying this section doesn’t matter. It is about 1 card. And I never said that “creatures imply agro” you said I said that.

            You kept ignoring the actual parts I discussed. The lack of utility creatures that blue white gets, creatures that actually help the control deck gain control of the board. And whenever I bring it up you never reply to it. So, if you are going to do that I agree. The conversation is over.

          • Giby86 .

            Uhm. I have replied. Many times. Ephara DOES help you gain and keep control of the game. Brago DOES help you gain and keep control of the game. You insist they don’t based on a flawed conception of “utility” (which I guess means “control” in your personal vocabulary?). And since this fundamental misunderstanding of yours is the basis of our disagreement, this is also the crucial part of this discussion, the section that “matters”. All card advantage engines are inherently control in nature because card advantage is an inherent part of the control strategy. Card advantage is NOT an inherent part of the aggro strategy, which wants to close the game before card advantage becomes a critical issue. Granted, it’s commander, so a way to draw cards is required to every deck, but the role this has in the different strategies of the decks is huge. Both Ephara and Brago are ENGINES, and both of those are FUNDAMENTAL in order to achieve control of the game. It really doesn’t get any more “control” than that.

            And just because I can, here’s a list of quotes of you saying that “creatures imply aggro”:

            “the rest are either directly tied to creatures like ephara, directly tied to doing combat damage or swinging like brago which causes a focus on voltron”

            “Ephara generates card advantage. But in the end you are doing that by generating creature. Making her a creature commander.”

            “If you are going to have a lot of creatures, you are going to swing. The more you creatures you have the more you swing, the more you swing the more agro you are. Ephara’s strategy is all about creatures so she enables an agro strategy.”

            “Ephara: Who’s creature heavy strategy DOES translate as agro.”

            “Yes. Brago has cards with strong etb effects because he’ll benefit those from his combat strategy to keep himself alive and strengthen his board. And winning with an army of tokens is an agro strategy… that is kind of the definition.”

            “She is completely based around creatures. The fact she draws you cards doesn’t mean she is a control commander. You said she is about generating card advantage so you can control the board. But she is about getting a board state, which her card draw helps to do, then punch people in the face with those creatures. Aka. Agro.”

            It doesn’t really get more explicit than that, you know. ^^

  • Dr. Burn Crow

    Guess he’s a real…mummy’s boy!!
    No, I will not leave.

    • Giby86 .

      Please reconsider.

      • Dr. Burn Crow

        For you? Never!!!

    • meme

      please don’t

  • TJ

    So uhh, esper aggro anyone?

  • What!

    So his commander curve is 2, 4, 5, 6, 5, 8, 5? That’s really neat.

  • Picklechu

    4 color deck with this and vraska lol

  • Zombie

    Huh. Kinda awkward colors for token decks in any format.

    • Happy The Cat

      probably more likely to see some equipment based voltron. or some weird Mirror Gallery deck

    • David Trainer Read

      Awkward? In what way? Blue has many good token makers and while white does too, it’s not as good in my opinion. This guy is surprisingly good because even if you do cast him turn 2 and he gets countered you could always embalm him a turn or two later.

  • Mov

    Edited: question already answered.

  • kmk888

    I kinda like this card for standard. He’s got a good, if specific ability and his legendary status doesn’t seem to matter at all since you’re already enthusiastically trading these off.

    To push him all the way you have to trigger the ability every turn, making it a token deck, but you don’t have to push him all the way. What if he’s sometimes just a bear that embalms for 5 mana as a legitimate win condition?

  • ConDucktor Whirl Crate God

    Azorious Token Commander HERE I COME!

  • Lord Gonti Of The Orzov Networ

    All hail King Tutankamen

  • TibaltTheAmazing

    No he can’t. As a copy, he would have the same name as the original.