• Kaiser

    A EDH card that cant be played easily in EDH? lol *read all the card* forget what i said this is very good

    • Random Guy

      Counterspells tho.

      • xxxx

        Silence, Orim’s Chant, Grand Abolisher, … though ;D

      • Jeffrey Zom

        But it says cast, doesn’t that mean only putting it on the stack is already enough as that counts as “casting”

        • De’Elgathor

          It doesnt make the check until the second copy resolves.

      • Michael Klüpfel

        you only have to cast this twice to win the game – it doesn’t have to resolve twice!
        And with some recursion like Mnemonic wall it doesn not rly care about counterspells

        • Timothy Zaccagnino

          Actually the second one does have to resolve. You don’t win the game on cast, the card will check when it resolves to see if the card has been cast from your hand twice during the game.

  • Jordan

    Well, now we know how Bolas plans to win his godhood back.

  • Ankulay Poulay

    sure, that’s a lot of mana, but you could just remand yourself…

    • Shawn Michael Diaz

      And now we have a pseudo remand in the set so… Control finisher? Probably not but still :p

  • Dr. Burn Crow

    Oooo frick, that’s pretty okay.

  • Serj

    I like it

  • Kahai

    So hopefully the Gatewatch loses this fight, idk if anyone dies, but it’s looking up for Bolas winning big this round. Which should put some rather inflated egos in the Gatewatch (see Chandra, Jace, and Liliana) in check.

  • Robert FakeLastName

    dream halls conflux combo killer.

  • mtgärne

    can i copy this card and win?

    • Serj

      Oh no you have to cast it from your hand

    • Damián Contursi

      if the copy resolves first

      • Him

        copying doesn’t count as casting

        • eltratzo

          copying on the stack usually doesn’t. there are some weird cards that do stuff like create copys in exile that you can then cast. those probably would be of limited help here though

        • Damián Contursi

          righttt

      • eltratzo

        copys usually aren’t cast and therefore can’t set up the winconditionof the original card

        • Damián Contursi

          true, but you could cast the first time from anywhere and it does count for the second time right?

          • eltratzo

            as long as the spell you win with is cast from hand it should according to the translation here. not certain of that until I see the card itself in english though.

  • Robert Burns Jr

    Approach of the Second Sun + Unsubstantiate + ramp of some kind = GG very quickly

    • galen150

      if you insubstantiate it, it doesn’t resolve so I’m pretty sure that doesn’t work. just a reminder: that was a translation so its probably not the official wording.

      • Robert Burns Jr

        you dont need it to resolve on the first play, you just need to cast it.

      • eltratzo

        the spanish version does use a form of lanz+ ending (lanzado and lanzaste) both at the part wher it specifies that the winning card must come from hand and in the part where it tells us what we need to do to win.

        so I’d say it’s quite likely that it indeed checks for casting and not for resolving. and if that is the case only the second copy would need to resolve.

      • Gustavo Martinez

        this spell is weird bcuz the resolution of it is worded like a trigger “cast” so we need the official ruling xD

      • I.R.Shnow

        “Lanzado” (or the verb “lanzar”) is the spanish equivalent of “cast”. And the “cast” keyword doesn’t care if the spell resolves in the stack, right?

    • Robert Burns Jr

      And then there’s Failure//Comply and Brutal Expulsion….12 ways to bounce this to your hand in standard…

  • Nebulium

    14 mana and a pursuit of knowledge with three study counters can get you the win in the same turn. I could definitely see that happening in edh.

  • MrAptronym

    While I like alt-win conditions in principle, I foresee this one being used primarily to win out of nowhere in EDH, which isn’t really something I enjoy.

    • eltratzo

      while I understand and share the sentiment as so often there are already millions of ways to be a jerk in edh. this probably wont be everywhere or unfairly strong. so if it does come up let the guy have fun with his combo a few times and then politely ask him whether he could maybe play something else for a few games since you don’t enjoy that kind of gameplay all that much.

      on mtgo… well I don’t think this will be something you run into that often so just accept that there will be games that you loose in unfun ways. It’s just like getting manascrewed. it just sometimes happens. it sucks but life moves on the next game will likely be better.

      • MrAptronym

        Yeah, I agree, EDH is all about everyone being on the same page. its just that the card has a neat idea but I don’t think it will actually play that way much. I wish there was some way it could maybe be a bit more resistant to single turn wins.

  • Happy The Cat

    yeah I dont see ANY way this could be abused. seven cards in? nothing in magic can draw that many cards.

    • Guilherme Favarin

      Dig Through Time?

      • Happy The Cat

        m8 I know there are cards that draw seven, that was sarcasm. if i’m playing usa I have about 18 ways to draw that many cards with just one spell. wheel effects break this.

        • Kaiser

          YEAH not even a demon, such thing dont exist.

          • Happy The Cat

            or any blue ten drops that set your opponent’s hand size to -7

          • raziel11

            yep, totally no weird sliver looking phyrexian that i refer to as “homeboy” in my blue control. those don’t exist

    • Ankulay Poulay

      remand it yourself.

    • Joseph Ollivier

      Contingency plan mills the top 5 away!!!

  • Ultramegalord

    First thought it’s terrible……. now I’m thinking I have an alternative win Con for sram O’s

  • Ultramegalord

    Uh stupid rules question. If I cast approach of the second sun and i copy it with say geistblast, the copy resolves first correct. Would the win condition be met on the first approach of the second sun,or that trigger Is only on the casting not the resolving

    • VBFabled

      You don’t cast the copy, it wouldn’t count

    • Derek Niles

      not geistblast because it doesn’t cast the copy but if you used an ability that did allow you to cast the copy (pretty sure that doesn’t exist in standard though) it would work

  • Ryan Cameron

    This plus Aetherworks marvel, does that work?

    • Daniel Scott

      It says cast, so yes. You only dig 6 with that card though, which is probably why this puts it 7 down (not that it’s a big ask to get a single card off the top)

      • eltratzo

        It’s probably the other way around. you don’t want to hit this with the marvel. to win you have to cast the winning copy from your hand. so you want to use the marvel to grind away the six cards between it and your drawstep and then cast it to win.

    • Pandancules

      No, You have to cast it from your hand

      • Kaiser

        For win you have to cast the LAST approach of the second sun from your hand. If you cast the last one from your hand you win. But the first one can be casted for anywhere.

    • Jake Miller

      Sort of. It’s kind of perfect in a funny way, but maybe not how you think.

      It says “cast “from hand,” so you cast the first copy (say on the opponents end step) using Aetherworks Marvel, gain 7 life and put it 7th from the top. Then, if you activate the marvel after your next draw step, you will always dig 5 cards and then hit this for the failsafe option to gain 7 life and reload. However, If instead you untap on your turn and immediately activate the Marvel’s ability on upkeep, you will set yourself up to draw into this whenever you’re ready to cast it from hand for the win.

    • Daniel Scott

      No wait, it says from your hand on this card, so no.

  • Derek Niles

    wait, 2 suns, is this the Egypt planet from Futurama?

    • Happy The Cat

      so… bender is… bolas? yeah, personality fits

      • Chromasticore

        REMEMBER ME!!

      • raziel11

        bender bending rodriguez is nicol bolas confirmed.

      • JustAGhost

        He’s going to create his own plane! With blackjack! And hookers!

        In fact, forget the plane!

    • Chromasticore

      Pretty sure there were 3 suns, but props for any Futurama reference!

  • Ryū

    Neat. Win cons like this are always entertaining.

  • death to the Gatewatch

    Gideon Emblem, lean back, win the game. Hopefully he get’s banned quickly

    • Somehow I don’t see a seven-mana sorcery that you have to hard-cast twice to win becoming a competitive mainstay.

      • Robert Burns Jr

        Well….theres handful of reliable ways to cast it for the second time on turn 6ish right now in standard and it would almost certainly be run in an american control deck so all you really need is maybe one or two more good support cards for it and it could see some kind of deck

    • Azure

      Cry as they remove your Gideon and kill you in the same turn (Saheeli-Cats).

  • NothingSpecial

    Isn’t this… a little too easy as a wincon? Like… the first one doesn’t even have to _resolve_. And only one white mana symbol?

    I can see this making it into legacy and even vintage cube as a wincon for fetch/ramp….

    Standard is the only format where I don’t see this seeing play (and even then I could be wrong)…. And it’s not even mythic….

    • Legacy and Vintage? Formats swarming with cheap counterspells?

      • Shagoth

        People act like everything will be countered.

        • Seven-mana sorceries that you have to cast twice aren’t exactly holding the advantage in a format with OG Counterspell and Force of Will.

          • Shagoth

            True, casting twice is a predicament, I don’t think this will do much in terms of play, but there’s Mizzix’s Mastery, Omnisci-Tell, and excessive ramp in both formats.
            I don’t like this card because it’s the laziest card for literally “you win” that I’ve ever seen.

  • Jack West

    Approach of the Sun- Planar Portal – Granted it takes a lot of mana, but still

    • Hedronal

      At that point just go black for other tutors.

  • Happy The Cat

    I really want to pull a 1~2 of these in my sealed at the prerelease, this card just freely wins games, having more than one in a deck is kinda broke in limited.

    • Daniel Kaine Allen

      Getting 2 of them isn’t entirely out of the question, especially if one is your promo, but it would definitely take the rest of your card pool turning out in its favor to really be a consistant win.

      • Happy The Cat

        all I would need is board stall in any color and this will win for me, being 6w means I just need 2 sources of white and I can run it. your talking to a guy who doored three people in m13, playing like a pansy and taking no risks until I win the game is natural to me.

        • raziel11

          you played door in limited? me to. limited control pansies unite!

  • Scathain

    If the second copy is countered, do you still win the game (much like Ulamog still exiling stuff even if countered, as per on-cast trigger)?

    • Danny Manies

      The effect happens if the spell resolves, so no. It is important to note that it does only check if it had been previously cast however, so if the first one is countered the second one will still win you the game if it resolves. If the first one is countered though, it just won’t be put as the 7th card from the top of your library.

  • Shagoth

    Another card that’s broken in casual but fine competitively (not even playable)
    Seriously, where’s the thought, cleverness, or skill in casting something twice? Hard deck to make, but atrocious design, good god. I’m pretty sure there’s ways to cheat this easily enough to be competitive jank.

    • Azure

      How exactly would you cheat this out? Any way I can think of wouldn’t involve casting it from your hand (other than actually casting it). I actually still think it could be a fringe win con for a UW Control list even in Standard but I’m sure it will never be great (though that’s never stopped me from playing these lists at FNM at least).

      • Shagoth

        Huh, surprisingly most of the playable “cast without paying its mana cost cards” involved from the library or graveyard, odd.

  • Aaron Casey Chiafos

    If I put a copy of this onto the stack, and then cast “Fork,” do I win the game? For casual/EDH/Commander specifically.

    • Absinthman

      No, because Fork and other spells and effects similar to it only “create a copy” of another spell on the stack. The copy is not considered “cast” so it doesn’t interact with “whenever you cast” triggers, doesn’t contribute to storm count, etc.

      • Aaron Casey Chiafos

        Now hang on a moment. While it is true that Fork does not “create a copy,” it is still a spell that was cast from your hand. Your argument would be true when using a card like Isochron Scepter or Panoptic mirror, but Fork is specifically cast as a spell, which by the way, if I “Fork” a spell, that is still two spells on the stack, and would give me a storm count of two.

        EDIT:

        After further reading the card “Fork,” it does say “copy target instant or sorcery.” That is the “oracle” wording of the card. It must’ve been changed over the years, because I remember many many years ago, it used to be worded differently. So using the oracle wording, I think you may be right.

        • Happy The Cat

          you cast fork from your hand, not a second Approach of the Second Sun. it will resolve as Approach of the Second Sun but when it was CAST it was fork.

        • raziel11

          fork exists separately from its copy on the stack. it creates a copy, it is not cast *as the copy*. the copy never gets casted, it is simply shoved onto the stack after fork resolves.

  • Aj

    So does this mean you just win if omniscience resolves? If so sneak and show alternative win con, here we go

    • megaman

      if omniscience resolves in omnisho, if youre running the right deck, you WILL win during your extra turn anyways.

    • Vizzerdrix

      Omniscience this dig through time so it’s doable but there’s better alternatives, a guy I played with had a wish board which I think is a better alternative
      Edit didn’t know dig was banned but you could still get it with preordain and ponder possibly

  • kmk888

    This is a great win condition for Standard control and EDH. Control decks need both lifegain and win conditions, and this lets them consolidate slots.

    • Hailthebeast

      good luck winning with this in edh simply one and throwing it 7th from the top makes it difficult to play it a second time and its 7 mana not worth it.

      • Vizzerdrix

        If it’s uw say modem you cast this followed by serum visions, flip jace, wall of omens, sphinx revelation, etc you’ll get it pretty quickly after you cast it, only problem is the initial 7 mana but if you hit all your land drops shouldn’t be that bad, your playing for the late game anyways
        Edit thought someone said modern but even if it’s edh a couple draw spells or even mystical tutor, vampiric tutor demonic even a tome sour you can easily get it sooner than 7 turns

      • Happy The Cat

        I think you vastly underestimate how easy it is to draw seven cards. between wheels, draw spells and your average dredge, getting through seven is super easy, and the decks that will run this like Zedruu can do it in one turn most of the time.

  • Transgendent

    Really hope I pull two of these at my prerelease

    • Vizzerdrix

      Why you only need 1 and then mulligan down till you get it then just stay alive 14 turns

      • Happy The Cat

        two makes your odds much higher to draw into. plus you just have to live for 8 turns if you draw both.

  • Aredus

    Approach of the Second Sun + Remand or Unsubstantiate or something like that and next turn you win

  • Lord Gonti Of The Orzov Networ

    I would totally build a UW card draw deck around this

  • Alberto La Placa

    What about twinning glass? Yeah you must have two of that in your hand but still not bad