Kozilek, the Great Distortion - Oath of the Gatewatch Spoiler

Kozilek, the Great Distortion



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  • Kahai

    The new symbol appears to be eldrazi colorless mana.

    In this instance, i would have to say that the symbol used in costs is similar to the colorless X cost, but limited to payment by eldrazi lands, such as Wastes.

    ~~~

    Nevermind that last bit, i can’t brain. The X is from the cards CMC.

  • William

    this is awesome he is my designated eldrazi…but his nothing like my playstyle :(

    • Johann Davies

      It’s probably just a low-quality image.

      • William

        no i mean im a graveyard player not a counterspell/blue player

        • Johann Davies

          Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong comment.

          • William

            nah is cool

  • MTGFanatic

    Is this real? it looks fake to me. The art is a bit pix-elated and the contrast of color is not good

    • Travis

      So I can discard blister pod (1 green mana), to counter Omnath?

  • Vincezco Ferrari Hdez

    How come HE IS NOT INDESTRUCTIBLE.!!! I have just realised that…!!

    • MrAptronym

      He counters spells though. That is some intense protection.

      • Happy The Cat

        he counters spells in a VERY specific way though, it’s not like winnower where even spells can’t be cast anymore.
        plus you have to discard for it meaning at most you have seven chances to counter a spell, if you only have one three mana spell you can only take one downfall off the stack

        • MrAptronym

          Unlike winnower, it doesn’t allow your opponent the knowledge of what they can and cannot do. He also requires two blockers and draws you seven cards, which are not small advantages. You only have seven chances immediately, but seven is a lot of chances, and you get refilled as you draw.

          • Happy The Cat

            even if he does draw you to seven, there isn’t much you can counter with that. lets say that you get full value from his draw. three will probably be lands seeing as you are playing this in control or ramp or not at all so those are useless. if you are playing a ramp deck, unless you have sowers, you only get counters against cmcs of one to three or four based on builds. as soon as you run out of cards in hand or even just a specific cmc he becomes just a fatty that dies to the first removal spell they draw. sure menace is good for him but token decks can easily pump out two a turn or just get enough power with buffs to kill him outright.

            if he had a bounce effect or shroud or just some way to have more value or survivability I’d like him but compared to newlamog’s game ending effect or winnower’s rather long ban list, (both being true colorless so any deck can run them btw) him discarding spells I could just be using to stop removal the other two ignore just seems meh to me

          • MrAptronym

            I think you are heavily undervaluing him. First of all, drawing to seven is a huge upside. Even if we ignore the last ability (Which I believe is quite powerful, but is up for debate) a 12/12 for 10 that draws you to a full hand and has menace would be pretty nice. Claiming it isn’t much to counter with is a bit silly, for most decks, assuming you haven’t searched out lands, you will get between 2 and 3 lands which means between 4 and 5 nonland cards in hand. Countering CMCs of one to four is great, because that is the cost of most spells people play. Especially kill spells. Even if your opponent kills him outright and you can’t answer, (Heck, even if they counter him) they spent a spell and you drew a full hand.

            Void Winnower on the other hand dies to any odd cost kill spell and you gain no card advantage over an opponent at all. One and Three are very common costs for kill spells, regardless of the format we are talking about. It does at least cost one less.

            Ulamog you could certainly argue is better. His exile 20 ability is basically a 2 attack timer, but honestly if he had trample it would be about the same. He is a great creature, but I think part of it is just flashier abilities.

    • kasigah

      Ulamog was the indestructible one.
      Kozilek was the card advantage one
      Emrakul was the lolzy “Rules? What are those?” one

  • MrAptronym

    This had better be real, because it’s the first Eldrazi card I actually want.

    Where I felt like devoid was a massive miss flavor wise, diluting colorlessness to an abstract label, a colorless mana only symbol is awesome and feels appropriately eldrazi. He generates huge card advantage, takes multiple blockers and has potent counterspell potential. People are complaining about the lack of indestructible, but he can COUNTER SPELLS.

    • Happy The Cat

      well, the biggest thing that he has against him is void winnower, it’s cheaper and also can kill a player in two hits with no life gain. sure you can counter spells with his ability but with winnower they CAN’T EVEN

      • MrAptronym

        Void winnower doesn’t draw you seven cards. Drawing seven cards is a huge deal. And yes, we have all seen the can’t even joke. Void winnower is much easier for your opponent to plan around too, they know what they can and cannot cast already, with Kozilek they have to bet against what you may have in hand.

  • ThePyroAlchema

    Is it bad I first read the cost as 800 not 8cc

  • kasigah

    *drool*

  • Dr. Burn Crow

    Well that thing is scary. I like it.

  • Snakesharkpenguin9

    What’s that new mana symbol?

    • Hedronal

      That’s something produced by the new basic land “Wastes”. The functional implications of this, such as exactly what it means or how it works, are currently unconfirmed.

    • David Fitzsimmons

      primary theory is it means ‘ONLY colorless may be used for this cost’

      • Hedronal

        That’s part of it, but the mana is also added to a mana pool by Wastes and Mirrorpool. Just saying what it means in a cost doesn’t cover that.

  • Kameenook

    EMAGERD NEW KOZILEK AND NEW MANA SYMBOLS. I imagine the new mana symbol: A, needs to be only colorless mana, or B: has to be from spawn/scion.

    • BobTheTitan

      its a new basic land that creates it

      • Kameenook

        I noticed that, seems good.

    • JustAGhost

      A was my interpretation as well. I think the idea is to make colorless mana actually matter, effectively making colorless the sixth color. The new symbol can only be paid with colorless mana, like the mana produced from a Sol Ring. This way we get a “new” color and it’s simple to implement, as there are already a bunch of lands, artifacts and creatures that can produce the new color. That’s my take on it anyway.

  • BobTheTitan

    Since this requires a new basic land type, are we not allowed to run it in commander?

    • kasigah

      We’ll find out the ruling on that when we get closer to the set. As of this point, we have NO idea how this new mana functions, rules-wise

    • Happy The Cat

      well, it has basic lands an non basic lands specify this symbol as a color so unless they say some weird ruling with it it would just be treated as a sixth color on the mana pool, having all of the same rules as all the other colors

      • BobTheTitan

        which brings up my point of not being able to play this card in EDH

        • FirelordNinzhan .

          Well, it might just be a worse version of all basic lands. It only produces colorless mana. If that symbol is on a card, it means that only colorless mana may be used for that symbol

    • MrAptronym

      Why wouldn’t you be able to? However you may think they function, wastes are a basic land. You can include any number of basic lands in an EDH deck as long as they don’t produce mana outside your commander’s color identity.

      • BobTheTitan

        The color would be outside of your color identity though, so tapping Waste for mana would produce colorless mana. Also, since wastes would be a different color you would not be able to run it in EDH (to my understanding). Similar to you not being able to run a red card in your BG deck

        • MrAptronym

          Ahh, well I think wastes are just going to be producing colorless mana. Even if they produce something new, I strongly doubt it is an actual 6th color. MaRo has said many times color 6 was decided to be too risky as it would permanently alter the game too much. (And other reasons)

  • DJPad

    Seems quite a bit worse than the original Kozilek. The card draw ability is probably pretty even (this one will draw you more some of the time but will sometimes also draw you less. I’m not sure how good the counter ability is as you have to have the exact CMC to use it (may be really good or really awkward), but I doubt it’s as good as annihilator 4. Not to mention it’s harder to cast…

    • Vixin Xiviir

      Well, I mean, Annihilator was overpowered and not fun. So maybe this goes from too good to just good…?

      • DJ Pad

        Was Kozilek really ever thought of as too good? Unlike Ulamog and Emrakul, it does in fact just die to a doom blade.

        • Vixin Xiviir

          I mean, anything with Annihilator on it was generally considered “too good”, especially in Limited.

          • DJ Pad

            Too good for limited is much different than too good. Comet storm is too good for limited but sees zero play in anything competitive.

        • BobTheTitan

          yes but a lot of EDH players run original Kozilek to shuffle their graveyard back in as an anti-mill strategy. So no it wasn’t too good? but it is useful

    • James Harris

      Sir, I would like to introduce you to a card called “exhume”. Its a fantastic card, you can get T1 Kozilek off dark ritual and entomb.

      • DJ Pad

        Is this really better than exhuming Iona, or Griselbrand or even Ulamog the Ceaseless hunger? I seriously doubt it.

        • James Harris

          Depends on your build. But yes, it definitely can be. Top, volrath’s dungeon=lock. You play “countertop” in a sturdy GB shell. Miracles won’t know what hit them having to play a mirror match with an Eldrazi. Newlamog is not a good reanimator target as path/swords are everywhere.

  • Happy The Cat

    great, now the grays are in magic…
    kind of meh card to be honest.not really, sure it is BIG as all heck but it isn’t going to dodge well and the main decks that could cast this will have 5-6 cards in hand when you cast it.
    might see play in one of those vintage decks that chains lotuses and dark rituals to play a winning card early so the reload closes down shop but besides that not much will want to play it

    • kasigah

      what do you mean by “dodge well”? It’s got menace, so that helps with the chump blocking problem, for the most part.

      • Happy The Cat

        it’s not flying or something that stops token decks from deploying the durdle turtle when you get it out early or avoids deathtouchers from just killing him. Ulamog was indestructible and had an ability that could kill without even hitting a player once, this cant do that. if it had a bounce to reset the reload I’d be happy but as of now I’d rather have winnower as my controls end game.

      • Dr. Woodenstein

        Whats more menace isn’t really a dodging ability. To kill a creature as big as Kozilek with another creature you would probably have to double up on blockers anyways. What do I care if it has menace if I was already going to block it with two of my dragons, hydras, big eldrazi, etc to kill it. Also there are plenty of cards like krenko’s command, dragon fodder, raise the alarm, hordeling outburst, krenko mob boss, etc that can produce enough tokens every turn to chump block kozilek forever.

  • 偽善者

    Then Kozilek was in Zendikar?

    • Aribaderchi

      Guess who else is in Zendikar? :)

  • Omfg I’m makeing a commander

    Daaaayyymn I’m tempted to make a colorless commander now because of the new lands and this I didn’t want to ask my play group if I could just use mountains or islands but this makes it so I have a actual colorless feel! And the ability to counter something in colorless mmmmm

    • MrAptronym

      I am 100% making a commander deck around this guy.

    • JustAGhost

      Well you could just go ahead and build the deck now with some other basic then link your friends to the new basic if they get huffy about it. Either that or wait a few months for the release.

  • Julna Buras

    A late-game beatdown, draw engine, counters things, AND has a form of evasion? Defnitely going in my control deck.

  • Hadron Speculator

    Well The Mana Symbol has a Colorless Border and does not add a new color so I believe that this is not a new color but is a special kind of Colorless mana not unlike snow mana which states “(oS can be payed with by any mana from a snow permanent)” so it might be something like this “(oA can be payed with any colorless mana produced specificly by a mana ability Adding oA)” o is the basic R&D letter to symbolize a Symbol of mana and A my basic idea for a symbol for this mana I am currently calling Hedron. Hedron is the name of the White Stone Artifacts created by Nahiri to contain the Eldrazi Titens.

    • Vixin Xiviir

      It’s produced by the new Basic Land “Wastes”.

    • Anomynous

      Interesting idea using the concept of snow lands and applying it to colorless mana. Instead of snow it would be the wastes from the eldrazi which are a special form of colorless mana. It fits well with the lore as the eldrazi devastation leaves no thing living and somehow the eldrazi convert the dead mana into a special mana.

  • Marvin Sürig

    Some things I think that are wrong with this guy.
    The ability is the same as Hisoka Minamo Sensei but has a strange wording which isn’t similar at all.
    Wizard never wanted to add a new color which would mean this manasymbol means: “Can’t be paid with colored Mana”
    There is no explanation for the Mana symbol, which means statement two is wrong and it’s a new color which has to be paid with wastes.
    And last but not least the set should sync. with set BfZ to draft 1 BfZ and 2 OGW. This means new eldrazi habe no sync with devoid eldrazi by forcing another color option to them. Next is that Eldrazi Exil everything so why doesn’t he exil a spell instead of counter it?
    I’d appreciate to hear your opinion on his

    • Daniel

      The reason why they dont exile is because the exile was the trait of Ulamog’s brood. The trait represented Ulamog’s hunger

      • jack smith

        so, maybe each brood has its own theme as opposed to a universal ability like annihilator?

    • Dr. Woodenstein

      Ya know I have to agree particularly on the point of his last ability. I was too in shock by how off it seemed to actually think about the wording of it. And while I don’t know that it has to have the exact wording as Hisoka Minamo Sensei to be a real spoiler, as I look more closely at it is seems like rather clunky rules text for wizards.

      • Jaden Ledkins

        Actually the wording is perfectly fine here, if you know the rules on abilities and casting abilities.

        Activating abilities is treated the exact same way as casting a spell.

        1. If you have priority, you declare your intent on activating Kozilek’s ability.
        2. Choose targets and modes if applicable.
        3. Calculate costs. In this case, you ascertain the converted mana cost of the spell you are trying to counter and sets a value to X.
        4. Apply any cost reductions. (Which isn’t applicable to this case.)
        5. Pay your costs of the activation. In this case, you discard a card out of your hand which matches the same converted mana cost as the spell to be countered. Your ability is officially on the stack.
        6. After another round of priority checks, your ability is either countered, removed from the stack or resolves.

        Hope this helps people understand that the wording is fine. I always found reading abilities first and costs second, after my judge test, to be helpful. In this case, the first clause is dependent on the second clause.

  • Nolly

    Man. This is a massive beater that requires two blockers to chump it and can protect itself with an uncounterable, free ability, and refills your hand even if it gets countered.
    This is brutal.

    • Arcus Diabolus

      I dont think he’s that great. You literally have to build a deck around his ability, with mostly-even amounts of each converted mana cost end to end, whist also having a spell for every mana cost in your hand at any given moment, and thats very hard to do, which will in turn leave holes.

      If I were to cast a O-Ring, for example, and my opponent did not have a 3 cost spell in his hand to discard, Kozi is taking a good long break. Kozi’s entire strat is based around keeping your hand hidden as well, so if I look at you hand with any old card that does that, then I can properly cast spells without worry or playing 20 questions with my opponent until I get something. Furthermore, it stands to reason that if I were to cast a 4 cost spell and it were countered, there stands a very strong chance that I can cast another one without a counter.

      TL;DR: Kozi seems to require a perfect situation made of perfect luck in order to perform like you are supposing he will.

      • MrAptronym

        Just because the third ability has holes doesn’t mean the card isn’t good. First of all, its still a 12/12 for 10 with menace and he refills your hand. (Even if he is countered)

        Second, the third ability will work sometimes. I think that people are undervaluing it because it isn’t a sure thing: people tend to undervalue cards that are less predictable. Ulamog may be indestructible, but that doesn’t save him from myriad exile and counter effects. (Heck, I had my fancy foil timestamped Ulamog ‘Turn Against’ me at the pre-release for one of the best turn arounds I have ever seen in a game) Its still nice to have. Now, I think his countering is weaker as protection than indestructible, but it also has a lot of utility outside of protection.

    • Zombie

      Yeah it’s probably going to do a bit of work in Standard Eldrazi as a one/two of, but I doubt the possibility of it ever escaping Standard or EDH.

      Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is still the better Kozilek.

      • Nicholas_Bolas

        You’re a butcher of truth.

        • Zombie

          Correction, I’m a butcher of jank.

          • Nicholas_Bolas

            Correction, you’re a butcher of junk.

  • kingalexander61

    Not real, if these were real they would have reminder text to tell you what the symbol is and means, just like snow and phyrexian mana.

    • Dr. Woodenstein

      That is an excellent point and I really hope it stands up as I will be rather disappointed if this is our Kozilek.

      • Sam Chi

        He had to have counter spell ability, as he is the titan of reality distortion, but he couldn’t be overpowered.

        • Dr. Woodenstein

          This is most definitely not true. He could have easily had some other reality distortion ability. For instance his reality distortion can cause confusion and panic so an ability like “Whenever Kozilek, the Great Distortion attacks you may tap up to four target permanents defending player controls.” would have been an excellent ability and akin to his annihilator ability. I actually would have been quite pleased if that was his ability. Then he and Ulamog would have been very reminiscent of their former selves while still being without their annihilator.

    • Johann Davies

      Unless it is literally just a new colourless mana symbol, which makes the most sense to me.

      • jack smith

        if it was just a new colorless mana symbol, wouldn’t the cost have to be 10 of the new symbol written out?

        • FirelordNinzhan .

          What if you can only use colorless mana for that slot. You can’t use other colors, and this is just a new symbol for pure colorless?

          • Arcus Diabolus

            That stands to reason. Not sure why they bothered at this point, tho. Never stopped them from printing countless artifacts and eldrazi using the traditional colorless system. I mean, its a welcome change, but its far too late to make a difference now.

          • MrAptronym

            Well there wasn’t a symbol involved in adding colorless mana for years, when they did add one they just used the one already set for generic costs. They could be fixing that.

            The idea of spells costing ‘colorless only’ sounds like more of a Kozilek tribe gimmick, which is neat enough.

          • jack smith

            that would make sense, but wouldn’t justify the making of a new basic land, unless they really just wanted to emphasize how much the eldrazi screw the rules

          • Johann Davies

            Yeah, my response is the same as FirelordNinzhan’s. There has been some demand for a colourless basic land, especially from EDH players, and it’s not like they haven’t printed new, set-specific basics before.

    • Nolly

      They dont need reminder text for something like this.
      Its special colorless mana that’s being treated as a color for cost requirements.
      Like, call it Void Mana if you want, its like Snow Mana except its a unique mana directly produced by permanents, which can sometimes be less confusing than “mana produced by a snow permanent.”

      • kingalexander61

        It is still a new mechanic that would need reminder text for at least the first few times it appeared though, so yes, they would put reminder text on it.

        • David Fitzsimmons

          Big Huge mythic cards do not need reminder text if they feel there wont be room for it. It is something I recall Maro stating several times long ago.

          • Vixin Xiviir

            Also, it’s an easy inference to make that it’s like snow mana because there’s a freaking new basic land that only makes the new kind of mana. Not that big of a leap.

        • YTRJD

          You mean like how Hooded Hydra had the Morph rules remin…of that’s right, it didn’t.

          • Mr.Mayhem631

            Morph wasn’t a new mechanic, and every other time there’s been alternate mana, every card with it has had reminder text (save for one).

      • Mr.Mayhem631

        We don’t know that.

      • Kahai

        Yes, my brother, let the Void take you.

        Be sure to cast all those colorless spells with it too!

    • James Harris

      No reminder text is needed because its not a new mechanic….its an errata. They are changing the colorless mana symbol just like they did the plains symbol back in 4th ed. With that errata they can finally distinguish between colorless and generic mana costs, an issue which has plagued design since Alpha.

  • harley

    Looks like X is going to big in the nest set

  • Vibue

    This new mana sort gives me a feeling of Pokemon..
    And not the feeling of omg a new creazy eldrazi.
    Another thing I like is the maybe colorless instant spells ( ancient string goes crazy) , but
    they would also need a color..
    Maybe it’s something good I hope.
    But the basic land looks really nice!

  • kmk888

    I like the way the counter ability is fueled with the draw, it’s easily my favorite part of the card. But the abilities still feel a little random, the new mana symbols are an unnecessary edition to the game, and I’m not a big fan of the art. Ulamog just felt a lot more cohesive to me, but then again I complain too much.

    • kasigah

      I mean, it is a void as cryptic as reality itself.

  • Nolly

    I don’t get all the fuss about the new symbol.
    Kozilek has them, he’s still a pure colorless card, so its not a new color.
    Its just a special type of colorless mana, functions as colorless mana when not used by any specific costs (like any color would.)
    Its not hard to figure out…

    • Gustavo Wadas Lopes

      Finally someone thinking like me.

  • Zombie

    2/10 Dies to Doomblade

    • Dave

      Discard-Countered with one of those freshly drawn cards…

      • wolf

        Because in your ramp deck you will have all the two drops?

        • kasigah

          I would. Tons of low-cost stuff to help me as I ramp up to a couple of Kozilek-size spells.

        • Lord of Riots

          Bingo. Exactly why this will have no home in standard or EDH I think. Maybe modern, because of its tight meta.

          • wolf

            If someone was going to play a ten drop in modern, they might as well go all the way and use emrakul. When you get emrakul into play you usually win that turn. You cant with this kozilek and this dies to typhoid rats + mortapod.

          • Lord_of_Riots

            I’m not thinking sneak and show, I’m thinking it might be ok in Tron, as a 2 turn clock that can defend itself/control the game with proper deck structuring. An uncounterable counterspell machine in a format where few cmcs matter could be devastating.

          • wolf

            This would require 4-5 tron pieces to cast and in that case, karn and wurmcoil are still better options that create an immediate board presence by turn three to shut off other combo decks. This could see some play as a one of in blue tron but otherwise tron cares more about racing the opponent than trying to interact with the opponent.

          • Nick Hannah

            WTF Emrakul dies to Typhoid rats+Mortapod! He has protection from colored spells, so mortapod can target it.

          • Zombie

            Yeah, because everyone plays Typhoid Rats and Mortarpod amirite? /s

          • Nick Hannah

            He also dies to Nighthawk, which is something that could be played in modern. I just thought it was funny how the original poster used the same thing to say that this card was worse than Emrakul.

          • Zombie

            Nighthawk isn’t played in Modern either because it doesn’t pass the Lightning Bolt test.

            That’s not just that it dies to Lightning Bolt, though that’s most of the problem. It’s that it’s a CMC 3 creature that dies to Lightning Bolt.

          • Nick Hannah

            How many decks that run Emrakul also run lightning bolt? And this still isn’t an argument about the modern meta. Someone made a hypocritical statement about Emrakul and this card.

          • Zombie

            Nope. Tron can’t use this as effectively as what it currently employs. This is still worse in a majority of situations compared to Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.

            Plus, Tron would need to alter its manabase, meaning that only Mono U tron could effectively use this new Kozilek.

            G/R Tron taking out lands for the new diamond mana is going to only accomplish 1 thing: Obliterating its manabase.

        • Zombie

          A deck like Tron might not but a Standard Ramp deck definitely would.

          They’re starting to move the new Tier 1 Mana Dorks into the CMC 2 slot, there’s CMC 2 filter/ramp, etc.

      • Zombie

        Discard a Doom Blade to counter Doom Blade and make your opponent’s head explode.

    • Pulverizerg

      I didn’t expected such short and funny commentary from you, hah.

      • Zombie

        Tales are told and hymns are sung of days few and far between where I manage to be entertaining.

  • Jaime Hubster

    Im sayin fake due to his unflavorful surname.

  • traveler

    Trick bind on a iceocron scepter

  • The Hastener

    Kozilek, the great disappointment. Wizards’ plan to increase price barriers by powering down limited/standard and monetizing the gaps between modern-edh-std is becoming more and more obvious with each card.

    • Giby86 .

      Powering *down* standard? On which planet??

      • The Hastener

        This planet, but that was super cute and clever. There has been an undeniable power shift down from KTK and FRF. In addition, BFZ has had almost no impact on standard, with post rotation decks comprising of recent prints in single digits.

        • Giby86 .

          Yeah, but Standard is still pretty powerful, and the power level has been increasing at least since BFZ. And this standard, the standard of today, mind you, not the Theros/Tarkir one, is the most expensive in the history of standard/T2. Anyway, it’s not since today that Wizards alternates between high level and low level sets. Final point, high level does NOT mean a healthy tournament environment by any stretch of imagination.

          • The Hastener

            Dude, standard is overpriced BECAUSE of the stagnation in the format. New cards released through limited drafts aren’t contributing to the standard pool, because they are ridiculously underpowered. So what we are left with is cards from sets that aren’t drafted at FNMs nearly as much, which lowers the incoming supply rates but retains demand, thus increasing the pricing on cards.

            And what are you saying about power increasing since BFZ? There has not been anything since BFZ. Power cannot increase from a point to the same point. Plus it is far past alternation here. DTK, ORI, and BFZ have all been bad. If oath is bad, it will further reinforce my theory. This new Kozilek is a step in that direction, as it will see no play outside of standard.

          • Hedronal

            What criteria do you use to determine “bad”? Looking through recent top 8 tournament lists, each set in standard has multiple cards seeing play.

            Also, by “since BFZ”, I think they meant that when BFZ came out is when the change occurred, as compared to before BFZ.

          • Giby86 .

            And what do you think the soultion is? Keep printing more powerful cards, so that we can have better cards every set? No, that wouldn’t work. Even worse, that would break the game, because you would need to keep going up, set after set, and, as I’ve said before, a high level of power does not lead to a healthy environment. Take Urza block, for example: probably the most powerful block ever, and definitely the worse metagame ever. Same goes for Mirrodin, for example: very powerful cards, terrible Standard. This is why Wizards gives us powerful sets and less powerful sets, there’s no conspiracy where Wizards wants to keep secondary market prices high to “increase price barriers”. Wizards doesn’t profit from the secondary market and definitely doesn’t profit from players not buying boosters of new sets because they won’t find powerful cards, so I really can’t see your point.

            Finally, I completely disagree about Dragons of Tarkir being bad, and ESPECIALLY about Origins being bad. Are you kidding? Not only one of the most powerful cards of the last few years is in Origins, but there are cards in there that are played in pretty much all formats. It doesn’t happen every set, and definitely doesn’t happen ever *core* set.

            And yes, Hedronal is correct about the “since”. I’ve messed up the sentence, but yeah, that’s what I meant.

    • Nick Hannah

      You say that yet you haven’t seen all of the wastes supporting cards in Oath of the gate watch. If this can only be payed with waste mana, then there obviously has to be some support.

    • Melissa Juice

      Paranoia.

  • Ryū

    I love it. An entity so ancient and powerful that it bends reality, a walking, hungering, devouring hole in the fabric of reason.

  • Luisito

    This card is SO GOOD. It’s like an uncounterable planeswalker that you can immediately ultimate. Even if it gets countered it gets you a full
    hand and his ability actually makes him a decent reanimation target as well.

    • Hedronal

      In general, I think you may be overvaluing him. Based on what I’ve seen said on the matter though, it looks like only playtesting will tell for sure. Also, reanimating him wouldn’t work with the hand refilling ability, as that triggers when you cast him. Not that reanimating a 12/12 with menace that counters spells isn’t good, but there are other good targets that may be better for that. Something providing alternate costs could still trigger his ability, and I laugh at the idea of casting an eldrazi, let alone an eldrazi titan, using Fist of Suns.

      • mehngo

        Funny you mention that. I actually run a 5-color deck in my casual playgroup that uses Fist of Suns to cast both Emrakul and Progenitus. This has nearly no competitive edge, I just get a cheeky grin whenever it happens.

        • MrAptronym

          This is why Casual is the best format.

  • Nolly

    I’m glad they’re trying to not make the Titans extremely overpowered, but still making them VERY powerful and considerably stronger than their old selves, sans the Annihilator.
    This IS a good card, people just need to get their heads out of their perfect clouds, and it will see play depending on the support () gets.
    And, though I doubt Emrakul will be in this set, I’m curious to see how they buff Emrakul’s cast ability to be in line with how the other two Titans have had stronger casting abilities…

  • Chi Sarades

    how will this affect a animar deck or any deck without any waste mana in commander?

    • Hedronal

      If the waste mana is colorless, as seems to be the current prevailing theory, then wastes, and things with waste mana but no colored mana (including no basic land types), would be considered colorless, and thus compatible with any and all commanders’ color identities.

      • Someone You Might Know

        Correct

      • Robert FakeLastName

        Except most lands are colorless to begin with. The color identity is produced from the symbol that is tapped for. Since this new symbol is not one of the 5 already established symbols it may not be legal in a commander deck with anyone other than this particular Kozilek as the commander.

        • Hedronal

          If this symbol functions as a color that way, then yes, but that is to be revealed. Also, yes, color identity, not color like I said. The point got across anyway.

  • Nightshade88

    Supposing this is legit… Well…

    At least it will be another Eldrazi that bites the dust… I hope we get rid of Emrakul too, so that Eldrazis will not be seen in a long time and we can get some more “political” oriented plots like Ravnica blocks or Alara block… Or even the Theros and Innistrad blocks. Without the “big bad monster” archetypes for heroes to defeat.

    • MrAptronym

      You know Ulamog hasn’t actually been defeated yet right? All three are still kicking. I am not a big eldrazi fan, but I don’t think they are going anywhere any time soon.

      I just hope we don’t end up with comic book style plots with the same characters locked in the same struggles forever.

      • Kahai

        I want Jace to die. SOOO badly.

        Obivously that wont happen for a while, but moving into a more story-based magic means heroes have to die. We started with Elspeth, whose next, no one (besides the writers) can know!

        • MrAptronym

          Hey, no one hates Jace more than I do. (Though even if he was the star of the last Uncharted realms, I was happy to see him get knocked down a bit by other characters and not just be passed off as the brooding cool guy with all the answers.)

          I am afraid that if things get more comic book then we will start seeing characters that never evolve, and might get bad comic book ‘deaths’. They have already hinted that elspeth is coming back.

          • Mr.Mayhem631

            I’d be fine with a legendary zombie card for Elspeth in a return to Theros, but I think that you do need to honor it when you kill characters.

          • MrAptronym

            They have been good about keeping characters dead… but they say theros is a special case, and they showed her returned mask and everything. I would prefer she be a zombie over a planeswalker, but who knows.

            I am pretty iffy about their decision to focus on a small permanent cast still. They need to be willing to continually and permanently change and progress the core planeswalkers or its going to get stagnant. I suppose they have done well so far.

        • Gix

          This isn’t game of thrones or the walking dead, killing main characters =/= plot.
          and at least jace has some personality and humility compared to someone like sorin who just cares about his self preservation and nothing else.

          • Kahai

            I never said that, killing beloved character can be decent storytelling. Killing off everyone clearly isn’t.

            Seems like i need to work on my hyperbole more.

          • Gix

            Okay I was over critical but if you want kill someone off, you need to give them a reason to die. Venser and Elspeth could die because they had someone close to them who was dying so they traded their life for their friend. Jace has no one close to him to give that emotion and his death would just come off as “generic plot device x” and feel forced over being natural. If wizards could give jace a close relationship that lasts more than one set, then he would have the set up for the hero’s downfall.

          • Trevor Terry

            Because Sorin totally didn’t create Avacyn to save humanity on Innistrad.

      • Nightshade88

        I know, they “trapped” Ulamog within the Hedron network at the moment and already have a plan to kill it for good… And probably they will, or at least keep it contained in a way that doesn’t harm Zendikar. I hope they do the same with the otwo and we get rid of them for a while.

        • MrAptronym

          I am going to guess, based on Ob Nixilis showing up there, and the fact we know he gets his spark back before Oath, that Ob messes their whole trap up royally and Ulamog escapes and everyone is sad.
          Also I don’t think they actually have a plan to kill it, Jace just promises he will think of something once its trapped. because Jace is the worst.

          • Hedronal

            Jace came up with the plan for trapping it, which allowed them to not die to it. He’s not the worst, in this case he has not much time to do a massive thing with not much accessible precedent. And with help, it worked.

          • MrAptronym

            I mean he is the worst just because I hate him as a character :P

          • nightshade88

            Standing from the Uncharted Realms articles, Jace’s plan is to trap the eldrazi and pull its entire esence into Zendikar using the energy accumulated in the Hedron network and possibly kill it for good (as Ugin told him that Ulamog is just a physical manifestation of a bigger entity).

            Well… We willsee whathappen a couple months.

          • MrAptronym

            Maybe Jace messes it up and that’s why he looks so brooding on the SOI key art.

  • Snakesharkpenguin9

    Ugin’s “Hand in the pond” speech to Jace is making so much sense, but raises so many questions.

  • Someone You Might Know

    Should be cmc X or less.

  • Chaospyke

    So just as a card, I’m not liking Cosi too much. Compared to his brother, Ula, he’s just not as good.

    The new mana requirement I do like for balance, but it obviously weakens him compared to Ula
    When Cast: Refill your hand vs Exile two permanents.I understand that Cosi is for a Blue-ish deck But that seems like it could be better, maybe.

    Discard: Counter – I would change only one thing on this: Counter target spell cmc x or less. Cuz even with a fresh hand, you aren’t guaranteed to have the exact cmc against their killspell or fieldwipe.

    Menace- I’d prefer Hexproof. It’d be pretty bad if Cosi got stopped by a single T-Rats, but those are easy to deal with. and I’d rather have him be able to trade with some other creatures rather than die to bone splinters.

  • Jakester

    Its really sad how a basic land is getting more attention than this Kozilek or even the mirrorpool. He may not be as good as other eldrazi, but it’s just a land! Come on! I will agree that This new basic isn’t something to sneeze at. It’s obviously big news. But discussing weather or not it’s a ‘6th color’ or simply a new symbol for ‘colorless mana’ really is pointless.

    • Hedronal

      This is a legendary eldrazi, #5/6. Eldrazi have been in two blocks. Wastes is a basic land, #6/6. Basic lands have been in every environment. We know how long Kozilek 2 will be involved, and approximately how game-changing he is. Further data on Wastes, such as whether it’s planned for a specific future inclusion, or just this set at the moment. It also provides a whole new form of mana, or a retooling of a previous one. A new kind of mana that can be added to your mana pool, instead of just seen in costs hasn’t been added since the game began, and none of the existing ones have gotten a symbol change since before the first eldrazi. Given how the implications of Wastes might be much more than Kozilek 2, this amount of talk and attention is all but unavoidable. It’s not just a land, it’s an unknown with more possible implications than him.

      • Mr.Mayhem631

        It would actually be pretty sad if people cared more about Kozilek than the land.

    • Nicholas_Bolas

      Well you need the land to cast Kozilek, so that counts for something!

  • HBFF

    4/184… Still hoping for Emrakul. If not for anything else, because I don’t want to see “colorlessness matters” take over Innistrad or some other known plane. If they want to have a new plane for Emrakul to wreck, however, that’s okay.

  • EJ

    I just realized that if you stack a bunch of effects which reduce the generic casting cost, you still have to pay .

    So, if you have some massive combination of Cloud Key, Eye of Ugin, Heartless Summoning, Helm of Awakening, Herald of Kozilek, Krosan Drover, Locket of Yesterdays, Planar Gate, Stone Calendar, Urza’s Incubator, Animar Soul of Elements, etc, you still have to pay to cast Kozilek.

    I think that was one reason they made Devoid, so you couldn’t cast medium-size Eldrazi spells for free.

    • Jazzyboy1

      Or you could just play him in Rakdos EDH and deal 10 damage to play him for 0 if he was all generic :P

      • Kameenook

        Similarly Kruphix could ramp giant eldrazis out……. Oh wait.

        • Jazzyboy1

          Oh wow, I never thought about that. Does Kruphix turn mana into the new ‘colourless’ or is the new ‘colourless’ going to have a different name to differentiate? o.O

          • Kameenook

            As far as I know, the “new colorless” is really just colorless, so Kruphix will store up mana.

  • kasigah

    So, as out in left field as it sounds, I just want a WUBRG devoid Emrakul. Because reasons

    • Phoenix UNBENCHED

      I could see a UBRG devoid Emrakul. Eldrazi don’t seem to like white for some reason. Then again, isn’t she what the angels refer to as the goddess ‘Emeria’? I guess she could have W for that reason.

      • kasigah

        I could live with UBRG too.

        • Sani

          That would be the first four colored legendary.

          • Kameenook

            SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY

    • Ben Ehren

      heres an idea.

      Emrakul, the Unmaker
      (8)WUBRG
      10/10 flying, devoid.
      5: Choose a color. Emrakul the unmaker becomes this color until your next upkeep, exile all other permanents of the chosen color.
      Protection from any color Emrakul, the Unmaker Isn’t.

      So absurdly high mana cost, but in return you can do a very specific wrath every turn, at the cost of becoming to a colour you just wiped from existence. what do you think?

      • kasigah

        I like it! Little bit of rewording for clarity, but I think it could fit well with Emy’s previous flavor.

        • Ben Ehren

          emy…EMY….ohmygod i will never call emrakul anything else.

          • Arcus Diabolus

            Call her “Emy Cool”

          • Ben Ehren

            ok but im spelling it kewl

          • Arcus Diabolus

            lol

      • ningyouNK

        Yeah i know this post is two days old, but i’m bored ;p
        Your Emrakul has a lot of weirdness to it, but maybe not in the eldrazi sense of the term ^^

        – I love the name =D

        – Clearly, having WUBRG in its mana cost is a weird thing to begin with, as it’s against the concept of big colorless creatures. But i like the concept, if you’re all the colors, in a way you have no color. All hail devoid.

        – 10/10 for 13 mana including WUBRG… You made Emrakul the weakest titan eldrazi ?? How dare you x)

        – The color hate has a fun flavor ^^ But i have two problems :
        1) Repeatable wrath prevent any kind of interactions with monocolored deck (that’s precisely what they try to avoid in the new version of the eldrazi titans by removing Anihilator). AND having to pay an additional 5 mana cost to use my capacity after struggling to play a flaming 8WUBRG card may be a bit disappointing. This version doesn’t do anything on its first turn besides eating Bone splinters on your opponent’s turn ;p

        2) Why make protection an activated ability ? At 5 mana for one colour ?? This is way less defensive than the original Protection from all colors.

        – It lacks a line of text. You need to add an extension of its previous power (play another turn), that will triggers as you PLAY it (like the two other titans) to get value from playing a 8WUBRG even if it gets countered.

        So, i think your version got an interesting angle with pentacolor devoid Emrakul and color hate, but it feels frustrating because you hold back a lot of what a 8WUBRG card should be able to deliver (you made the Timmy inside of me cried, while Emrakul is the essence of a Timmy card xD).

        • Ben Ehren

          you misread the protection thing. it has protection from all colours that it ISN’T. meaning due to devoid it has protection from all colours, until it does its colour wrath at which point it becomes vulnerable to the colour it just wrathed not only does this mean its safe for a couple turns (though it would need counterspell protection) but once it does wrath vs a monochrome deck, that deck had a turn to use instants or sorceries to get rid of it. (red can do some ultra damage, black with splinters, blue has some bs, white with o rings, green either fights or plummets.)

          • ningyouNK

            Oh my bad, i indeed read it incorrectly >.<
            Well i have to say i find your idea very elegant this way =)

            I still think that Emrakul needs to be more of a straightforward all-win creature, and it's not really the right card for this idea. But in a vaccum, i like the puzzle spirit where "wrathing" your opponent creatures in one color open a breach in you defense for non-creature spell of the said color. What i like the most is that you can't cheat your way around by choosing a color your opponent doesn't play, you have to choose a color you know he/she will be able to use against you.

            P.S : By the way, i'm too lazy to check but i apologize if i let a "he" instead of a "he or she" somewhere in all this text i've written. I'm not sexist, i'm just french and we give everything a gender (players and fingers are masculine to me while chairs and apples ares feminine for example). So no offense, if i let a "he" slept through ;)

          • Hedronal

            For eldrazi, he, she, it, and otherwise are all about equally applicable anyway.

          • ningyouNK

            I was talking about mentionning the player in the rules x’) But we got to discuss Kozilek’s gender, so this totally made my day anyway XD

        • Hedronal

          The protection would apply immediately upon that version entering the battlefield. It has devoid, so it has no color, so protection from all colors it isn’t is protection from all colors. Among other things, that stops the Bone Splinters you mentioned.

      • Hedronal

        At the point of having devoid and a WUBRG cost, I’d expect WUBRG because why not have that extra twist.

        • Ben Ehren

          i considered that. seemed to be a bit over the top in my head.

          • Hedronal

            It’s Emrakul, is it not supposed to be over the top?

      • Jaime Hubster

        I think you would have to state that she loses devoid in that 5: ability. However Top marks for flavor, well done!

        • Ben Ehren

          yeah a lot of people have talked about that…can we get some expert on wording to take a look?

          • MrAptronym

            New effect should overwrite devoid’s effect, so it’ll work fine.

            I would say the mana cost is excessive though, and as an eldrazi titan she should have an on cast ability. Preferably one that involves time manipulation.

          • Hedronal

            Maybe we’ll finally see an effect that has someone else skip a (non-extra) turn. The closest we’ve been to that is Ugin’s Nexus, which only contributed the “(non-extra)”.

  • Sani

    X or less in the counter ability would be terribly broken, you are playing eldrazi obviously so most of the time you could counter everything.

  • Anthony Curry

    Will the new Kozilek be commander legal? I wonder…

    • EJ

      It’s a Legendary creature, so yes. It can be used as your general.

      Assuming “” is a new symbol for “colorless mana”, then it will also be legal in the 99 of any deck. If “” is some new type of mana, then maybe not.

      Also, there are different versions of Commander with different rules. In Duel Commander (the French 1 v 1 variant), all of the Eldrazi are legal, even Emrakul. A Mayael the Anima deck with an Emrakul in it recently won an EDH tournament in Italy.

  • Nicholas_Bolas

    Is this card real, or just a Distortion from Wizards? :

  • selesnyawarden

    No, wait, spoiler, its MEeeeee (falls from a large cliff…of deception and distortion)
    oh that’s ok. So glad the spoiler didn’t Turn Against me,

    It’s not that he’s hidden, its just that he’s too shy to come out, unless you offer some “wasteland” path for him to tread upon, the probably you can summon him.

  • Penguinizer

    But it doesn’t have indestructible…….

    • ningyouNK

      Well, neither did “Kozilek, Butcher of Truth”, but at least this version can counter some removals ! That has to count for something =D

      • kasigah

        Thank you! Bout time we got an optimist on this site!

        • Gilgamisses

          You’re kidding right? This site is overflowing with blind optimism. The BFZ forums had wayy less negativity than that wretched set deserved.

          • MrAptronym

            It goes both ways. People go with their gut reactions and tend to exaggerate things in both positive and negative ways. Go back to khans or fate reforged and look at everyone talking bad about Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise and Tasigur. (I liked them, but you can see in my comments even I say Treasure Cruise is only OK and think there are better options than Dig through time… at least I got Tasigur right?)

            People are prone to exaggerate and prone to misjudge, but that doesn’t mean they are particularly positive or negative.

  • Kameenook

    Well our friends over at Mystic Gate Expeditions all but officially confirmed the symbol.

  • Ghaustyl Kathix

    I feel like the wastes and () mana requirement goes against the flavor of the Eldrazi. The Eldrazi consume all mana from everything. The blighted lands from last set were mostly consumed, so they still gave mana but not enough to give any color identity. These wastes are completely consumed, so flavor-wise they shouldn’t give any mana. Kozilek himself shouldn’t care what mana goes into him, as well.

    • Hedronal

      The eldrazi eat some quality out of the land and people, but that’s not to say they eat everything, or that they don’t leave something. Perhaps it’s some quality of colored mana that they subsist on, not the ability to produce mana itself. Kozilek, being an eldrazi who was summoned or called to Sea Gate, where he first appeared in recent story, works on colorlessness, like colorless mana. I’m still working on exactly why the flavor makes sense for Ulamog not needing that mana, but potentially something like him being smaller, or not having been called or summoned to a location.

      • bentheechidna

        Ulamog is the Ceaseless Hunger. He eats everything. Kozilek is the Great Distortion, Butcher of Truth. He subsists on the remains, like a vulture. He bends reality and physics as we know them and subsists on the remains as we rely on food.

        You can also think of Colorless mana as pure untainted mana. It hasn’t been tainted by any other primal energy. It is energy at its core. Kozilek is utilizing the core of magical energy untainted by the colors and their natures.

        • Hedronal

          Tainted is one way to think of it, but another is modified. Colorless mana may be purer and simpler, but there are still things it can’t do, that other mana has come around for.

          I also think saying Kozilek is like a vulture is a little far, he’s just processing his food. For all we know, what he’s doing is the equivalent of cooking it.

          • bentheechidna

            Yes of course. I’m just providing possible explanations for why Kozilek uses colorless mana specifically.

  • kmk888

    Okay so with the Mystic Gate reprint we know that is the new symbol for colorless mana. But then what does that say about this card? Why didn’t they print it as costing 10 or ? Do you still have to use colorless mana to pay for ?

    The only way I can rationalize it is that is colorless only, which was the most popular theory anyways.

    • Happy The Cat

      okay, he’s how it works the 8 can be any color mana, just like always, but for the ♢♢ you have to pay colorless mana.
      think of it like a color type almost

      • Alex Egertsen

        You all really do know how this gets extremely sick with lands like Eldrazi Temple and Shrine of the Forsaken Gods. Or in Commander where you have Sol Ring Temple of the False God plus Shrings and Eldrazi lands

    • EJ

      If the casting cost was “10”, you could pay it with 10 green mana.

      If the casting cost was , you would have to pay all 10 mana with colorless mana.

      Kozilek costs 10 mana, but only 2 of them have to be colorless. The rest can be black, blue, green, red, white or colorless.

      It’s the same as Jin-Gitaxius, Core Augur who costs 8UU
      It’s the same as Primal Surge, which costs 8GG
      It’s the same as Storm Herd, which costs 8WW
      It’s the same as Dragon Tyrant, which costs 8RR
      It’s the same as Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil, which costs 8BB.

      • Alex Lopez Melero

        This is maybe the best mode to rules mana.

  • kasigah

    My only question is: how does this play into commander color identity? Could I still run it in a mono red, for example, since it’s colorless, or would I need a commander with in the identity specifically? The new rules for the set can’t come soon enough.

    • EJ

      Commander cares about color identity, not the color of cards. Colorless is not a color. The new Kozilek has no color identity. It can go into any Commander deck, the same way that a Sol Ring or fetch land can go into any Commander deck.

      From the comprehensive rules:

      903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
      Example: Bosh, Iron Golem is a legendary artifact creature with mana cost {8} and the ability “{3}{R}, Sacrifice an artifact: Bosh, Iron Golem deals damage equal to the sacrificed artifact’s converted mana cost to target creature or player.” Bosh’s color identity is red.

      105.1. There are five colors in the Magic game: white, blue, black, red, and green.

      105.2. An object can be one or more of the five colors, or it can be no color at all. An object is the color or colors of the mana symbols in its mana cost, regardless of the color of its frame. An object’s color or colors may also be defined by a color indicator or a characteristic-defining ability. See rule 202.2.

      105.2c A colorless object has no color.

      105.4. If a player is asked to choose a color, he or she must choose one of the five colors. “Multicolored” is not a color. Neither is “colorless.”

      202.2a The five colors are white, blue, black, red, and green.

      202.2b Objects with no colored mana symbols in their mana costs are colorless.

      • Hedronal

        I would say that Kozilek has a color identity of colorless, not that it has no color identity. Also, the comprehensive rules haven’t necessarily changed yet with the set release. (Not that I think they will have be more than colorless.) Otherwise, I agree completely.

        • Emrakul WIns

          Colorless Mana is where as numbered mana is X (or any number to sub for X) The diferance is that is pure colorless mana which can only be payed for with colorless mana not converted colorless mana. It would be the same as 10. this card must be payed for with 8 mana of any color or colorless and 2 colorless mana.

          • Hedronal

            I know that, I’ve been saying that that is (or was probably, pre-confirmation) true for weeks. I don’t see what the point of you explaining it there was, in response to something about Kozilek’s color identity being colorless instead of nonexistent.

        • bentheechidna

          No. Colorless, in case you didn’t understand how to break apart words, means without color. He has no color identity. He has a colorless color identity, which is the same thing as not having a color identity.

          What that means, as your colorless commander, is that you can’t put cards with a colored mana symbol in your deck.

          • Hedronal

            First, there’s no need to be rude.

            Second, having a colorless color identity is not the same as having no color identity, just as having the blood type O negative (treating blood proteins as colors) is not the same as having no blood type.

            Third, yes, of course you can’t put things with a colored color identity in a deck with a colorless commander, like before. Mana symbols aren’t the only thing that adds colors to a color identity though, color indicators also do that. (For example, the other side having a black color indicator is why Elbrus, the Binding Blade still can’t go in any commander deck.)

  • Kameenook

    12/12, would play in Eldrazi ramp deck.

  • Robert FakeLastName

    so can this card be cast with mycosynth lattice inplay?

    • MrAptronym

      It can be cast, but only if you have a source of 2 colorless mana as normal. Mycosynth lattice lets you spend mana as though it was mana of any color, but colorless is not a color. You could not for instance spend red mana as colorless mana to cast him. The effect is optional so you can still spend your colorless mana as colorless mana.

      Basically it has no effect.

      • Robert FakeLastName

        ok cool

  • Dr. Woodenstein

    Yeah well Elesh Norn is boring too but also very powerful. A 12/12 that requires 6 creatures on the field to be able to block it (6 since you can tap 4 of them and then it can only be blocked by 2 or more creatures) is a lot more devastating than a 12/12 that can requires 2 creatures to be blocked and can sometimes maybe counter something. The original titans were boring too. Annihilator wasn’t a particularly interesting or thought provoking ability that you built around, it was just powerful. The only titan that wasn’t “terribly boring” was Emrakul and only if you could hard cast him, and the most competitive decks that play him don’t hard cast him they trick him into play through reanimation, sneak and tell, or a host of other cards. I don’t care if he is boring, if he wins he will be fun.

  • wolf

    but Mortapod + Court Hussar in U/W Titan is a thing?

  • Mr.Mayhem631

    Why would it be {10}? That’s like saying “Siege Rhino should be {4}, there’s no difference.”.

  • Pact

    If we go through what everyone’s been commenting here, paying {10} is strictly different from paying {8} and 2 {} if the cost is viewed being from mandatory colorless sources (in a standard environment I’d mention lands like Haven, Sanctum of Ugin, Shrine of Forsaken Gods or the Blighted uncommon cycle, for instances). Where paying {10} of any colored mana you’re able to produce on top of other sources that may be colorless, with Kozilek for instances, you have to pay 2 of that mana as mandatory colorless, instead of it being from any one source of mana.

    This is just as much speculation as your post’s, but it holds just as much reason. Until we get a proper confirmation on this card and the new symbol, we’re all just pretty much running our mouths here.

  • Kahai

    Long live the void, be it known amongst all who Gather.

  • Hedronal

    Except it’s not a basic land type. There is no subtype on the card Wastes. Void mana (which is an unofficial name), is theorized to mean colorless mana. Wastes and Mirrorpool would thus add colorless mana (with a new symbol) to your mana pool. Kozilek 2 and Mirrorpool’s abilities have costs of specifically colorless mana, and Kozilek 2 also requires generic mana, which is what the old number symbol means in a cost.

  • Mr.Mayhem631

    Really. Do you have any evidence, or were you joking?

  • Mr.Mayhem631

    This person, in addition to having a username I don’t like, doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
    This isn’t a new basic land type.

  • EJ

    I agree with everything you said in the first paragraph, but the casting cost is not speculation. Assuming Kozilek is an actual card, it costs 8 to cast. This means 8 generic and 2 .

    The speculation is whether is a symbol for something which already exists or something which is completely new. But the casting cost is still 8. It doesn’t matter if is “colorless mana” or “Eldrazi Void Mana” or “Goat Vomit Mana”. The spell costs 8 generic and 2 .

  • Happy The Cat

    well, it is and it isn’t. it IS a new basic land but it isn’t a new basic land TYPE.

  • Pact

    I don’t recall mentioning anything about basic land types, I was talking about paying the cost to cast Kozilek as the 2 being mandatory of colorless mana instead of generic mana. Sorry if you misunderstood, I must’ve not expressed myself in a clear way and mixed up my concepts.

  • Mr.Mayhem631

    Never said it isn’t.

  • Kahai

    Void Mana may be unofficial, but it was officially coined by me! XD

  • Nicholas_Bolas

    *scoffs* Siege Rhino might as well be {4}, it’s a sucky card anyway. (Don’t sue me)

  • Nicholas_Bolas

    Man this conversation is entertaining! XD

  • Mr.Mayhem631

    BLAST FROM THE PAST