• Shagoth

    I smell combo.
    EDH, get on dis shiz.
    Modern, do something with this.
    Standard, um, got nutin’.

    • Kitnz

      In standard… combos with Quicksmith Spy to allow you to draw a card off of an artifact for every spell you cast (will combo with the Quicksmith batch, assuming the pattern continues). Also works with any new Improvise cards, where you’ll essentially be refunded the Improvise cost 100%. That’s just from Aether Revolt.

    • Ryan Cameron

      I’m sure it could have a use in standard potentially with something like Cryptolith Rite?

      • Happy The Cat

        into what? all you have done is cast your whole hand, then what? it’s not like there is anything in standard that isnt already being cast, and it’s not like you will ever have the board presence for that big one shot fireball you could have just won by beating them in the face if you had the board to do that.

  • Pandancules

    Where did I put my cryptolith rite?

  • Kitnz

    Instant EDH-ban, at least for my group. Like, really?! Untap ALL nonland permanents?! This goes infinite with way too many things. My group won’t be playing it in EDH just like Panharmonicon.

    • Zombie

      If you’re banning this you should probably ban Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix too.

      She goes infinite with any repeatable untap effect if you’ve drawn 4-5 cards in a turn.

      • Kitnz

        We ban all infinite combos. NOT cards that cause the combos, but any combination of those cards that can go infinite. For example, we do not ban Bloodchief Ascension or Mindcrank, but we do not allow both in the same deck, as they are insta-mill / insta-kill. Weird situations happen where people steal other’s permanents or one trigger goes infinite off another player’s triggered ability, but the purpose of our ban is to avoid such situations as much as possible. So while we do allow Kydele, we would not allow untap abilities in that deck. One commonly disallowed card is Peregrine Drake, though the card itself is not banned, it just happens to go infinite with certain ETB effects.
        (We acknowledge some people don’t like our house rules, but that’s why they’re called ‘house rules’)

        • Zombie

          Your house rules sound like “no one gets to have fun, everyone plays Durdle: the Gathering for an hour”.

          • Kitnz

            That’s your opinion, to which you’re entitled to. I’m sorry you don’t enjoy the same things I do. I prefer being able to play a game without some combo ruining it.

          • Zombie

            Since when is a combo “ruining” a game? And how does a combo ruin a game any more than no one doing anything but just slapping creatures on the board every turn with no critical thought involved?

            Why don’t you just use a point system to stop degenerate combos that no one likes, but enable fun combos like Kydele that have to have literally everything ever go right for them to work?

            Or why don’t you just include answers to combos in your decks?

            Are you thinking this is some budget issue? Because combos like Kydele and the answers to them could not be anymore budget if they tried.

          • Sylvio

            Some people just enjoy constantly evolving board states and long lasting games, as opposed to situations where one deck wins the game by turn 3 with an splinter twin combo. This is highly dependant on the play group though, but its obvious Luc here prefers games to actually last longer and games not be decided with like an Breya going off with an Nim Deathmantle or the like. Such combos are overdone to death and require very little effort to pull off, unless someone in the table specifically expects that and packs his deck with specific removal for it. Been there, done that.

            But some combos do actually require actual effort and time to be set up, like the Kydele one you mentioned or an beautiful one that involved a deck going infinite with series of Chain Veil activations. These in my experience are fine since they do take time and are very disruptable, unlike Mycosynth Lattice and some other broken card, like Consulate Crackdown. But in the end, all of this is opinion based.

          • Zombie

            > Some people just enjoy constantly evolving board states and long lasting games

            Seems perfect if you like wasting a bunch of time not challenging either player’s skill at Magic. Or if you like getting drunk and just slamming creatures on the board like a 5 year old who literally can’t stop playing his tribal Beast deck and refuses to accept that counter spells exist at all.

            That’s not “fair” Magic, that’s “durdle” magic. In you no-combo meta, a tuned Control deck could never lose, and outside of that, it’s literally “whoever top decks the biggest threat wins”.

            Sounds like REAL fun.

            > Such combos are overdone to death and require very little effort to pull off, unless someone in the table specifically expects that and packs his deck with specific removal for it. Been there, done that.

            Or maybe breakneck combos in EDH are the only time they’re ever healthy because it’s the only format where you can have literally all of the answers.

            Not allowing all combos/infinite combos instead of just degenerate combos that are impossible to answer is just stupid and ruins the spirit of the game.

            Only bad players have problems with non-degenerate or fragile combos.

            > These in my experience are fine since they do take time and are very disruptable, unlike Mycosynth Lattice and some other broken card, like Consulate Crackdown

            Which is still answered by literally any counter spell ever, any artifact hate, any permanent bounce, etc.

            Just because a combo has two pieces doesn’t automatically make it degenerate.

            What makes a combo degenerate is the lack of another player’s ability to interact with it, or if a combo is a consistent T1/T2 win (which also has to do with an opponent’s ability to interact with it).

          • Sylvio

            So at the end of the day, play blue or leave?

            But as it is said, fun is subjective and some people do just enjoy playing their Beast tribal deck without having to dedicate a majority of their cards to fight a specific kinda threat. EDH at the heart is a durdle format afterall.

          • Zombie

            Saying Blue is the only color with answers is probably why they hate combos in the first place, they don’t know how to play against them.

          • Bonogringo

            Zombie you must not take for granted what you think of what mtg should or should not be.
            This game represent what people are. Some like it serious some like it fun some like it fast some like it slow.
            The only thing that matters to some is winning and to some other is having the most fun.

            That being said you can defend your point of view, no problem in that, but you can’t say thing that are wrong.

            Were I live it’s only 1v1 commander and it recently went down from 30 to 20 life points. The only good decision after years of thinking about how to reduce blue power.
            Blue got the best answers from “counter target spell” wording. That means anything that got cast and can be countered.
            Red can deal with artifacts and land and creature, once in play.
            Green land, artifact, enchant once in play
            White same but once in play
            Black… you know where i’m going.

            Any instant speed combo can get away with non counter spell answers, let’s take vendilion clique and tunnel vision. once you have no more fetch in play you can lose on a really non effort taking combo (especially if your commancer is clique…)

            I really enjoy games of commander and i personnally play in both 1v1 competitive format and multi funnier format too.

            All that to say, blue got the best answers as is to say “no” to everything at instant speed. End of discussion on that.

            And don’t tell people they should let combo in their meta so they can challenge their magic skills.
            Combo is no skill at all in itself. Mono red need more skill, aggro in muliplayer games need some skill. dealing with tempo, card advantage and life point require more magic skills.
            Combo is just some pieces you try to put together while doing all the good magic stuff. If your kill is something else, assembling it would make it so that you challenge your magic skills in the same way.

            But without automatic game winning combo you avoid turning your meta into a control freak zone.

          • Kitnz

            Oh, I didn’t know this continued. Anyways, Bonogringo got it right. “The only thing that matters to some is winning and to some other is having the most fun.” I play for fun, not to win. If you do not understand this, then we will never agree on “how” Magic is played.

            Zombie- “Saying Blue is the only color with answers is probably why they hate combos in the first place, they don’t know how to play against them.”
            My most played color does happen to be blue, with white a close second, due to the heavy control elements. Even so, you can’t control everything all the time. My group plays 3-5 player games. If I were to stop one person’s combo from happening, the 3rd player would have the freedom to get theirs off due to me being tapped out or having spent my control spells. And then there’s players 4 and possibly 5. Control is definitely a thing in multiplayer, but it’s near impossible to control the entire board, unless of course, you have a control combo. And we all know at this point how I feel about those things.

            Zombie- “Seems perfect if you like wasting a bunch of time not challenging either player’s skill at Magic. Or if you like getting drunk and just slamming creatures on the board like a 5 year old who literally can’t stop playing his tribal Beast deck and refuses to accept that counter spells exist at all.”
            There’s more than just creatures, you know. Like enchantments, equipment, sorcery spells, etc. Just because we don’t allow insta-win combos or infinite combos does not mean we don’t have variety. Your comment here is ridiculous and suggests you only run combos, viewing all other strategies as poor, which is so wrong.
            The fact that I play 3-5 player EDH games may have an impact on how you view combos. Combos in 1v1 are perfectly fine by me! 1v1 EDH is an entirely different game than 3-5 players, and thus is treated so by myself. I play Tiny Leaders for 1v1, however, and avoid 1v1 EDH due to my EDH decks not being designed for 1v1.

  • Derek Gooding (TuberTugger)

    Not that marvel needs help… but now you can cast multiple free things a turn.

    This card is bonkers. In modern, I’d play it with chief engineer and some zero cost dudes. Maybe throw in beck//call or paradox and just draw and play your entire library.

  • Zombie

    Definitely the better of the two new spoilers, and by far the most likely of the two to break some non-Standard combo.

    Is playable in almost every single EDH deck ever, goes infinite with the Convoke + Buyback card cycle, goes infinite with mana rocks, etc.

    Serious combo piece to watch out for. Would not surprise me if this breaks something in a non-rotating format.

    Although I do have to add that it’s not very likely this slots into a preexisting deck. Definitely a build-around and not something that replaces an existing combo piece.

    • Happy The Cat

      buyback dorkstorm? can trips, dorks, this and Haze of Rage, Sprout Swarm/Wurmcalling or any other buyback spell that can escalate like those?
      Whispers of the Muse as a way to confirm our combo once we get this so we have 12 win conditions for Paradox Engine?
      we lose on Haze if they have enough blockers and swarm/calling loses to almost any wrath. the only question is how fast can a deck filled with dorks, rocks, and cans generate 9-10 mana (engine and whatever buyback spell you are winning with)

      • Zombie

        I have a feeling this fits more of a bounce-rock Storm kind of deck, similar to how Vintage is using Paradoxical Outcome to bounce all of the Moxen and whatnot to their hands to replay for draws and Storm count and additional mana.

        The keys to abusing Paradox Engine seem to be:

        – A repeatable/mass bounce enabler (Eldrazi Displacer, Paradoxical Outcome)

        – Some kind of mana engine (Mana rocks, mana dorks, moxen, mox opal, etc etc.)

        – Cheap spammable spells that can be replayed once bounced.

        – Large payoff to abuse mana generation/ storm count

        If you’re just playing this for value then I don’t think it’s going to work that well. Seems like a card that needs to be the crux of a combo to be of real value.

        • Happy The Cat

          I was thinking using this as an otk combo deck, as soon as my board can make four mana after this lands you die. If I can loop Haze of Rage’s buyback my board instantly gets +x/+0, where X is equal to the amount of times I’m willing to recast it with a plus some math number that I’m honestly just too tired and lazy to find out the mathematical formula that represents what is created by Haze of Rage having storm.
          I feel this is going to be Jeskai Ascendancy 2.0(which lets be honest, is exactly what it is) and there are going to be two camps just like before. one that wants the otk combo and one that uses it for value of untapping cards that just build up over time.

          • Pseudophysics

            To find the math for you because you know nerd. X = N(N+1)/2 where N is equal to the number of times you cast haze of rage. And also in case people don’t know what haze of rage does. It’s a red sorcery for 1R with buyback for 2. It has creatures you control get +1/+0 and it has storm.

  • Ultramegalord

    In standard I’m thinking a manarock , metalwork colossus deck, then add dimensional infiltrator as an alternative win Con. Has the potential to mill a deck in a single turn depending on how many mana rocks you have and luck

    • Kitnz

      This card essentially refunds the new Improvise mechanic, untapping the artifacts you tapped for mana. This might be significant.

  • BusinessmanGinger

    Very nice, I would be glad to pull this in a draft or limited. Combo players are going to be happy about this.

  • Shagoth

    This could make a new deck, Trombo!
    Probably not, but I could imagine a ramp deck with card draw and control getting as many mana dorks as possible, and then going storm with this.

  • Together Alone

    Could this be used with Cryptolith rite in standard? Especially if we get more fabricate cards or token producers?

    • Together Alone

      Oh also, this and Yahenni’s expertise is two triggers most times

      • Durdler

        Torrential gearhulk too

  • Happy The Cat

    so I was looking at Planar Bridge and thinking to myself “well, If I had a way to untap everything at once I could make some auto combo fetching… thing” and what do you know? I got the exact card I wanted.
    this thing is great. it’s like intruder alarm got drunk and wanted to party with everyone.
    calling it now, this, mana dorks and Haze of Rage are going to be a combo deck within weeks of this set coming out.

  • JamesIsLames

    A new Jeskai Ascendency?

  • Liam Maiher

    Azami edh new staple

  • Ian Wojo

    This card is just too good in edh, after you play it its essentially like an omniscience, except you still need the Mana to cast the spells.

  • Background Character

    when I read this card my mind instantly went to sprout swarm. can’t wait to see what people come up with this card.

  • ReiFan

    I’ll prefer “Elite Arcanist” be her partner. Years ago, arcanist is weak since he have to tap himself for only ONE copy.
    Now we have a really good engine~

    • Robert FakeLastName

      use that 1U spell (“dramatic reversal”) under elite arcanist. same goes for isochron scepter. super busted combo. this is just another printing of dramatic reversal technically. Both are super combo’y and just got alittle more consistent.:P

      • Alex Egertsen

        true, however this artifact doesn’t rely on the fact you need to be able to imprint dramatic reversal. It also means you can isochron something else that is much better to have on the sceptor infinite times

        • Robert FakeLastName

          and never forget that isochron scepter and elite arcanist can have multiple spells under them via panharmonicon or any thing that copies triggered abilities :)

  • Nanya

    Well, this makes Mana Rocks pretty busted.

    • Brian Schmidt

      Mana rocks or mana buddies. Just as long as it’s not lands.

  • Daedalus

    Hmmm. I love the card. I hate the art.

  • Mr.Mayhem631

    hehe Meren Storm OP hehe

  • Dominic Ng

    Let’s see… Jacob Leupold’s Perpetuum Mobile

  • Deadly Berry

    Looks like they want to breath some life into Tap effects, which have been relegated some by ETB. I like it, lots of options to work with (or rather troll with?)

  • Nebulium

    Wow, so this basically lets you cast forbid, or any buyback spell really, infinite times in EDH. The cards may be an obstacle, but shouldnt be bad at all, especially in something like azami.

    Could make for some funny wins.

    “I don’t expect you to die Mr. Bond, I expect you to brush with death… 100 times! Which will most certainly kill you yes I expect you to die I guess.”

    • Zachary Holloway

      Example: Blue player has this, a Basalt Monolith, Gilded Lotus, and a Capsize…..

      Jeez

  • Daniel Kaine Allen

    This plus artifact mana dorks and panharmonicon equal an amazing deck. I want a playset right now.

    • Alexander Buchberg Nørskov Sør

      I think you should read panharmonicon and Paradox engine again :)

      • Daniel Kaine Allen

        I’ve read the cards just fine, i just didn’t tell my whole story. I’ll paint the whole picture for you. Mana dorks, panharmonicon, paradox, and something that lets you tap for card drawing. Use the mana dorks to cast an artifact preferably with an etb effect, everything untaps, use your draw card, we’ll say its temple bell, use mana dorks to cast the drawn card, rinse and repeat.

        • Alexander Buchberg Nørskov Sør

          But why was a slot on panharmonicon? the card doesn’t do anything in that combo other than double the ETB of cards played, that’s worthless :P

          • David Fields

            it gives you a second untap, which would give you extra draws, mana, and a greater resilience to fizzling

          • Alexander Buchberg Nørskov Sør

            Like, literally, READ THE CARDS xD there is no second untap, panharmonicon trigger on ETB and paradox triggers on cast xD they do NOTHING together xD

          • David Fields

            Clearly people were missing something, you could have just said that instead of laying out bait so you could could unleash the full breadth of your condescension upon them. People like you are why I don’t go to FNM anymore, I’ll stick to commander with friends while your community dies. kthanxbye

  • Nanya

    Oh hello Esper Wizards control with Patron Wizard, Azami and Echo Mage, how are you today?

  • Shagoth

    Future Sight/Tap and draw permanent
    Evil

  • cptplanet

    I love the concept of a perpetual motion machine being invented in Kaladesh. I love the art, too.

  • pbtenchi

    Just realised it was legendary.

  • Dave

    Cryptolith Rite could like this.

  • Jonas Candy

    so i’m thinking something like G/U elves with this and intruder alarm with some of the draw card elves (or Beck//Call) and like a haste enabler (or even some spicy extra turn stuff) and win with craterhoof or storm?

    • Jonas Candy

      Who knows maybe even some cool paradoxical outcome stuff

  • kmk888

    Best with mana rocks since they don’t suffer from summoning sickness and produce mana. It also seems easy to draw cards with that sort of shell (Thoughtcast, Paradoxical Outcome, Reverse Engineer)

    It’s a good thing there aren’t any zero cost artifacts in Standard or a mechanic that makes all artifacts into mana rocks…

    • Tolle

      Not sure if that was sarcasm or not. But improvise.

      • kmk888

        Definitely sarcasm.

  • Zachary Holloway

    This card is so freakin’ busted…. I see this becoming an EDH staple for sure

    Especially in Daretti, Memnarch, Karn Silver Golem, and Arcum Dagsson…. And it’s a POWERHOUSE in Ezuri, Azami, Niv-Mizzet, Experiment Kraj….

    The possibilities

  • Seraphinite

    There has to be a way to completely break this…

  • Jonas Candy

    love this for kaho edh